...though I really appreciate your ambition to do it all by your own

Not really ambition, i just want to feel that i have done my part for the UI

was that irony? It's a tool to zoom in and out and reposition your working screen.
ah and do you know you can use the arrow keys to adjust image positions? I'm sure you will figure it out

I found it!   now my workspace looks like this...



This is muuuch better, thanks so much!  and yes i noticed i can move items using the arrow keys for finer control

Layout Composition

Depending on the objects position I often choose between top center bot right center left - and from there I can offset the next object for its own width and a few spacer pixels (was that understandable?)

Okay i think this tip is the key to my "moving elements" problem. Can u give me a few more "how to" tips about this so i can experiment/learn with them?  like...

• the "skill window" ui element is not that wide when u look at it in GUTS, but in-game it is wide! which property should i adjust so the GUTS view looks more like in-game?
• The "background" ui element is a child of the "skill window" ui element and they have the same width (narrow in GUTS).  But because it "expands" in-game, i had to shrink the left-to-right dimension of the background image so it would also expand in-game Very un-intuitive and a nightmare to adjust!  What am i doing wrong here pls?
• I notice when you move a "window" all items inside the window move together.  So when setting offset, do i offset against the parent window or something else?  does their alignment setting affect this?
• can different items have different alignment settings? like some are left, some are right / or do they all have to use the same alignment setting?

UI Logics

each level of the training skill could add a stat to the player that can be used as an requirement to unlock your main skills.

Okay i can see how this could work.  But the method for skills unlocking i have been working with is the one used  by @gytfunke originally...



I think if the trigger is a player stat, i will have to use different inputs/outputs? Can u give me some tips here pls?

When I was working on that mod I had some different things in mind but since it newer came to the light it is good to have you here.

Well i didnt really think this idea of mine is a continuation of your concepts (which seemed too advanced for me ); i just had these ideas and i wanted to see if i could make something with them.

oh a quick question pls!

In aligning the training skill icon, I had to mis-align it in GUTS 

Spoiler (hover to show)

is it something about the parent, or alignment, or both?

• the "skill window" ui element is not that wide when u look at it in GUTS, but in-game it is wide! which property should i adjust so the GUTS view looks more like in-game?
• The "background" ui element is a child of the "skill window" ui element and they have the same width (narrow in GUTS).  But because it "expands" in-game, i had to shrink the left-to-right dimension of the background image so it would also expand in-game Very un-intuitive and a nightmare to adjust!  What am i doing wrong here pls?

hm.. let me start this way: when you run TL2 in min resolution (800x600) and the UI-Scale set to 100% you still be able to have both menu sides open. This is why the menu buttons are on a different height (else they would overlap).
Any changes in menu size will result in overlapping BUT only in min resolution and 100% scale! I guess the majority will play in a higher resolution and prefer 90-80% UI scale so it should be fine.

The vanilla menu size is 715x510, I guess you would be fine with 715x765 or something like that.
I've seen your file is larger then the size you set in guts, so I decided to quickly adjust that... Its in the dropbox now (i've uploaded the photoshop file too so you might have a look how Ive done it)

To test it out I've cloned your skilltreeoverride and filled in my piece but I noticed wrong locations here and there so I copied the vanilla skilltree and pasted it right into my skilltree. they were ofcorse overlapping so I've set the visibility to false. from there I went through all the major elements and double-checked the size and offsets.

You still had a lot of elements with scaling properties so I fixed them and relocated the buttons aund windows with XnY offset. Mainly by copying the vanilla values and adjusting the width here and there.

now the background image fits perfectly - though it still appears too small in GUTS - this is where you might need photoshop creating a collage of your element like in GUTS and mesure their position, then head over to guts and place them there, even if they wont fit with the background (for the moment - in game they will!).
#EDIT will upload it too so you can have a look. though the imagesize is not optimal! the menu is called Skilltree_lolesch and you have to bind it to the unittype but you know that

• I notice when you move a "window" all items inside the window move together.  So when setting offset, do i offset against the parent window or something else?  does their alignment setting affect this?
• can different items have different alignment settings? like some are left, some are right / or do they all have to use the same alignment setting?

Yeah, "windows" are containers, moving to will move the inside too. You always offset to the parent and use the alignments so left, top with x=10 y=10 will move it right and down. right, center with x=-10 y=10 will move it right and down
The alignment is the corner you start from. positive numbers will move in the opposite direction, negatives in the same... I never made that clear to myself in that way but I guess you got it.
Different Items can have different alignments, yes! I recommend to use the same alignments for same elements, lets say all your skills, because if you adjust the parent window size elements using the top left will move in the opposite direction the elements using bottom right. Relatively tho their "corner" they do keep the offset.


sorry for not going into UI Logic so far... I will give some light there as soon as possible. As well as for the tooltip (wich is UI so you can mod it the UI skill properties direct to it)
I'd do a multilevel skill - feels more comfortable to me but you are the skill master not me

About the Tooltip
Will the choice of separate skill/multi-level skill affect what we can do with the tooltip?

yes. and no. the tooltip reads through the skills actual level. so different level with different affixes will result in different tooltips - no need of different skills here.

I was thinking the standard skill tooltip doesnt look good for the training skills - each tooltip will always show "rank 1/1", or hovering over each mini-icon pops up the same looking tooltip every time and the tooltip is too big, etc, etc. what do you think?

totally manageable. as said above you can mod the tooltip itself/create a now tooltip just for the training skill.

Or an alternative would be to just keep clicking the first skill icon/plus sign, and have a "progress bar" that keeps extending to the right.  Is that possible/advisable?

I like it. but you can also remove the tooltips from the buttons and just ad a hover description so the tooltip only shows up on the "training skill icon" and the further buttons just say something like "increase trainingskill" or so.
this way you would need a multi-level-skill!

this is just written in a hurry, sorry. always happy to answer your questions (hope i did answer most of them) and keep me updated!
lolesch

this is what I've mentioned before, GUTS does not show the correct size of the background image (is is bigger in-game then it appears in GUTS) so you have to "mis-align" things.

Okay, got it and thanks

I've seen your file is larger then the size you set in guts, so I decided to quickly adjust that... Its in the dropbox now (i've uploaded the photoshop file too so you might have a look how Ive done it)

To test it out I've cloned your skilltreeoverride and filled in my piece but I noticed wrong locations here . . . I went through all the major elements and double-checked the size and offsets.

You still had a lot of elements with scaling properties so I fixed them and relocated the buttons aund windows with XnY offset. Mainly by copying the vanilla values and adjusting the width here and there.

now the background image fits perfectly - though it still appears too small in GUTS - this is where you might need photoshop creating a collage of your element like in GUTS and mesure their position, then head over to guts and place them there, even if they wont fit with the background

Thanks so much lolesch!  I also ended up adjusting the size of my background image (I went with 715h x 900w) and with your tips from the previous posts I think I was able to get the alignments and offsets mostly right, so things fit better and it became more stable!

will upload it too so you can have a look. though the imagesize is not optimal! the menu is called Skilltree_lolesch and you have to bind it to the unittype but you know that

You mean a new skilltreeoverride.layout file with your edits?  That would be really helpful for double-checking myself for errors, thanks very much!

I'd do a multilevel skill - feels more comfortable to me but you are the skill master not me

Quote from: phanjam

Or an alternative would be to just keep clicking the first skill icon/plus sign, and have a "progress bar" that keeps extending to the right.  Is that possible/advisable?

I like it. but you can also remove the tooltips from the buttons and just ad a hover description so the tooltip only shows up on the "training skill icon" and the further buttons just say something like "increase trainingskill" or so.  this way you would need a multi-level-skill!

Yes, I would prefer this kind of presentation, it seems more efficient So, multi-level skill it is!  And I will now make some alternate artworks for a skill "progress bar" 

ah, and for your logic and stat controls... I found this:
http://torchmodders.com/forums/classless-character-concept-(new)/mod-directionvision/msg3063/#msg3063

Spoiler: Skill Unlocking Logic by lolesch (hover to show)

Thanks so much for reminding about this post!  I think I can grasp the logic enough to see how it works.

So the green "TxSx Req" items on the left will be a required value for a dynamic-stat given at each skill level?

Spoiler: Skill Unlocking Logic by lolesch (hover to show)

So the green "TxSx Req" items on the left will be a required value for a dynamic-stat given at each skill level?

Okay based on the logic I assumed the "main skills" will evaluate if a certain STAT is at level "x" before displaying the plus button.

So I made the "Fighter Training Skill" a 15-level skill and put a SET STAT [EFFECT] in each level , like this...

[LEVEL1]
[EVENT_START]
[EFFECTS]
[EFFECT]
<STRING>NAME:FIGHTERTRAINLEVEL
<STRING>ACTIVATION:DYNAMIC
<STRING>DURATION:INSTANT
<STRING>TYPE:SET STAT
<FLOAT>MIN:1
<FLOAT>MAX:1
<FLOAT>CHANCE:100
[/EFFECT]
[/EFFECTS]
[AFFIXES]
<STRING>TARGET:SELF
<STRING>AFFIX:CLASSLESS_FIGHTER_TRAINING_01
<INTEGER>AFFIXLEVEL:1
[/AFFIXES]
[/EVENT_START]
[EVENT_END]
[AFFIXESREMOVE]
<STRING>TARGET:SELF
<STRING>AFFIX:CLASSLESS_FIGHTER_TRAINING_01
[/AFFIXESREMOVE]
[/EVENT_END]
[/LEVEL1]

Succeeding skill levels will re-set the MIN/MAX so that by level 15 the FIGHTERTRAINLEVEL stat will be equal to 15.

And this is the STAT .DAT...

[STAT]
<STRING>NAME:FIGHTERTRAINLEVEL
<INTEGER64>UNIQUE_GUID:2524506058930012224
<STRING>TYPE:TYPE_INT
<BOOL>SAVES:true
<FLOAT>MINVALUE:-1
<FLOAT>MAXVALUE:15
<FLOAT>DEFAULTVALUE:-1
<FLOAT>VALUE:-1
[/STAT]

@lolesch I will try to use this set-up now inside the skill unlocking logic you shared, but if you (or anyone else ) see any trouble with the code please let me know!

Hi @lolesch ok i understand and thx mucho for helping re-plan the logic!

Have you added more skills jet? So I can use them instead of blank theorycrafting.

Haha ok i will shift focus now to making a few fighter skills give me a day or 2 for that.

Thanks!

Spamming the forum
I found myself modding again. Your work inspired me to get back to my classless mod. It’s slightly different since I plan to use the attributes (Str. Dex. Foc. Vit.) to unlock skills and I’d prefer to lokale them on a map (like in PoE).
I‘ve reworked the stats already so soon I could go into skill crafting.
This is where I might need your help learning a few more things

My concept replaces the attributes with
%attack speed
%cast speed
Physical Dmg
Magical Dmg
You have to invest in these to unlock skills fitting to the stats. Ofcorse you can/should combine at least 2 of them.
I’m not finished with the theory crafting but 90% of it is done so soon I will start with the skills. I’d love to have some skills empowering each other. I have some ideas for that but it’s all still in the blue.
Before that I need to figure out a few “bugs” with the stats overhaul.

Gonna post about this concept more detailed soon.
Cheers
lolesch