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Author Topic: Destroyer Gameplay Feedback  (Read 5803 times)

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Re: Destroyer Feedback
« Reply #15 on: »
Heyo,

@Phanjam let's try not to change any more skill or affix Name strings.  It breaks references to those skills found in other skills or affixes.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 10:57:40 pm by gytfunke »

Re: Destroyer Feedback
« Reply #16 on: »
 :( sorry about that!  Tried to tidy-up the folder structure... hope it's not beyond repair!


Re: Destroyer Feedback
« Reply #17 on: »
Nah, it's all fixed up.  Hey, super sorry about not making it this morning.  :(  First, I didn't wake up till 7, then Windows decided it needed to force a 20 minute update on me.  Now TL2 won't start. 

Re: Destroyer Feedback
« Reply #18 on: »
So, Wolven and I got some testing time in on the Destro today and one thing became very apparent.

The Destro has no survivability and no ranged abilities (for the most part).

It really needs some life leech, hp regen, damage shields, etc to be viable in melee, especially versus bosses.  It really fell apart when we encountered our first boss (Mordrox)

I propose we implement a few more survivability skills, especially for the low levels where there are none.  All the Destro has right now is healing from Chains and Tier 1 Entropic Aura.  There's Frozen Shield, but that's not till level 28.

Here are some ideas:

I could make the healing on Entropic Aura available from rank 1 (level 7).  There's Twinkle's proposed survivability passive (which is really good, I think).  But neither of these is an active "Spam this button for more survivability" skill.  The point of a spammable survivability skill, of course, being that it forces you to sacrifice offense to get yourself out of a dangerous situation (a la Shadow Burst for the Zerker, or the charge-devouring Force Field for engi).  I know we have Shield Slam, but it requires a shield, which is going to exclude a lot of Destros.

However, I like the way Shield Slam applies its damage shield.  Maybe we could migrate that to a new survivability spam skill.  I could nix Doom Knell in the Spectral Tree (or Wind Wall), and turn it into a 1st tier skill such as this:

Inevitable Advance

The Destro takes a powerful swing that interrupts enemies and blocks their blows.  (Chance to interrupt, adds the damage shield a la Shield Slam, and moves the Destro forward a little bit.  Deals low %WDPS, like 20%)

Chthon pointed out that the Berzerk skill feels kinda ho hum.  I also think it overlaps with the Zerker too much.  I say we change it to another survivability skill (the Destro already has lots of offensive punch).  This is, of course, up to you, Phanjam, but here's my idea:

Berzerk
(or, maybe rename it Unstoppable, Pain Meditation, something like that)
Gain a large damage shield (that essentially makes you invincible for a short while) that lasts for ~5-8s and provides Stun/Slow/Immobilize resists.
Long cooldown, like 30 or 45 seconds.
Tier bonuses increase the damage shield's duration.

Last idea:
I could change Shadow Armor to provide a damage shield.  When the shield drops, the specter dies as well, forcing the player to recast it more often.  But this doesn't make the player choose as much between damage output and survivability the way Shadow Burst and Forcefield do.

More than last idea:
We could change Chain Vortex to be the main lifesteal skill instead of a stunning skill.  Titan Stomp kinda takes over the role of AoE stun.  So, I say we remove the stun from Chain Vortex, call it something else, and move its life steal component to rank 1.  We could also switch Stampede and Chain Vortex so that it's available earlier.  I think that's necessary.  A sustain skill is really needed even from early on.  I think I like this idea the best so far.

Needs more ideas.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 03:19:44 pm by gytfunke »

Re: Destroyer Feedback
« Reply #19 on: »
Also,

Skeletal Phalanx:
The skeletons should have a rimlight attached to them or something to make them stand out from hostile undead.  They blend in too well.
The targeting might also be changed.  They tend to show up on the wrong side of impassable walls a lot.

Re: Destroyer Feedback
« Reply #20 on: »
As Chthon reported,

Slash Attack is in fact applying to champions and bosses.  I see you're using an EFFECT instead of an AFFIX to apply the actual kill effect.  Pack it in an affix and add NOT UNITTYPES: Boss & Champion.

I don't agree with Chthon's idea to match kill chance to critical strikes.  It's either going to be too rare or too common due to the way you can build crit chance on items.

Cast speed also seems slow on Slash Attack.  Maybe speed it up a little?  Also, speeding it up will increase the occurrence of instakills.  So if you do speed it up, reduce the instakill chance.

Re: Destroyer Feedback
« Reply #21 on: »
Here is Chthon's Oct.26 feedback post on Steam

Spoiler (hover to show)


Re: Destroyer Feedback
« Reply #22 on: »
So I made some changes to my set of skills and the innate passives over the weekend:

1) No more innate 25% damage redux.  Instead it's +25% armor.  The charge bar still gives +20% damage redux at max charge.

2) Shadow Armor
I changed this to apply a short-duration, low-powered shield buffer like Chthon suggested.  I think it works nicely.  The minion's damage now scales as well.

3) Auras
I added the time indicator and changed the duration to always be 2m.  I don't know if I agree with Chthon's suggestion to make them toggleable.  Toggleables essentially become passive skills unless you add an associated debuff (like +skill mana cost).  I think having to recast them every 2m (for a huge chunk of mana) will probably be fine.

I haven't touched the mechanics of the auras.  I ran through the mapworks testing and didn't feel that Thorns Aura caused any problems drawing unwanted aggro.  I want further confirmation from other testers before I change it.

For Entropic Aura, I think the heal should be dissociated from the attack/cast/movespeed debuffs that are currently on it.  Either Entropic Aura should a) debuff as originally intended, or b) heal.  I'm leaning towards A.  In which case, I might move the heal either a) onto Spectral Decay, or b) onto a new skill to replace Doom Knell.  I'll put Doom Knell into the next update, but I don't much like it.  Requiring corpses is VERY constraining for an active skill.

4) Spectral Decay
This wasn't scaling correctly.  Fixed it.  Removed the Stun chance.  I think Chthon's right about there being a sizeable amount of stun available and I think this is one of the skills where it wasn't really necessary.

Still need to test shadow bowman.

Re: Destroyer Feedback
« Reply #23 on: »
Quote
3) Auras
I added the time indicator and changed the duration to always be 2m.  I don't know if I agree with Chthon's suggestion to make them toggleable.  Toggleables essentially become passive skills unless you add an associated debuff (like +skill mana cost).  I think having to recast them every 2m (for a huge chunk of mana) will probably be fine.
you can make the toggleable have a cost, that is a mana reduction debuff, essentially reserving a certain amount of flat mana or %mana,
i can help you greatly with designing the auras if you choose to go the toggleable route, cthon did link a tutorial i had done when i innovated a method on how to make a 100% foolproof aura system, ive refined that to an extreme degree and can show you hows its done

Re: Destroyer Feedback
« Reply #24 on: »
[...]
i can help you greatly with designing the auras if you choose to go the toggleable route, cthon did link a tutorial i had done when i innovated a method on how to make a 100% foolproof aura system, ive refined that to an extreme degree and can show you hows its done

Yes, please do share your techniques and methods. Half the point of this site is building a knowledge base, so if you have the time and feel up to it, please document them. Preferably in the wiki.  ;)

Re: Destroyer Feedback
« Reply #25 on: »
I would love to get your toggleable aura system method.  I don't want to implement it yet, though, until we decide on what the auras should be doing.

Re: Destroyer Feedback
« Reply #26 on: »
So, I think I'm going to revert the effects of the auras back to their originals from TL1.  So, Entropic Aura will only debuff and Thorns aura will still do damage like it does.  The heal will be gone from Entropic Aura.  This'll preserve the feel of the Destro.

I'm going to leave Thorns Aura's tier bonuses.  That is, the radius increases with level.  I'm going to implement the same for Entropic Aura.

To remedy Chthon's concerns about Thorns drawing unwanted aggro, I'll go ahead with your toggleable implementation, Twinkle.  Being able to toggle it off will allow one to choose better when they want to have Thorns active.  If you draw unwanted aggro with it, well, you did decide to turn it on.  But I'm sure you'll want it on when those hordes of shock copters are buzzing around you in the Ezrohir dungeons.  Twinkle, tell me what I need to do for the toggle aura!

Re: Destroyer Feedback
« Reply #27 on: »
o awesome
im pretty busy atm, so sorry for the late reply gyt
ill be making a tutorial on my advanced version of the toggle system to share with everyone, ill try to make it as detailed and comprehensive as i can, ill be using one of the auras as a demo, and i wll provide template codes so you can see the inner workings much better,
sit tight  ;)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 04:18:03 pm by TwinkleToes »

Re: Destroyer Gameplay Feedback
« Reply #28 on: »
So I haven't actually played Destroyer yet, but I did take a peek during chargen. I gotta say, I love that the class has unique models. The game is always throwing its concept art in your face, but all your characters end up looking like the same generic two or three people. The Destroyer rightfully stands out. It's also great how their idle animation doesn't hide their face during chargen.

I did notice a few redundancies though. Female Destroyer has identical faces (5&17, 6&15, 8&18) and identical hair colors (1&12, 2&11, 4&10). Could be even more instances that I didn't spot.

I like the Destroyer's portraits as well, but I think they could do without the red outlines. They feel out of place, as do the blue outlines on Alchemist portraits.

 

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