The Engineer for example, these are the skills that are affected by removing Armor.

Bulwark: Adds %Bonus to Armor and a Physical Damage% reduction.  Taking armor out negates one bonus and with DR on armor it makes the % Bonus increase OP.

Sword and Board:  Negates the Damage bonus due to removing armor.

Aegis of Fate:  Negates the damage bonus to the shield damage absorption

Fire Bash: Negates Damage bonus for shield armor

Shield Bash:  Negates damage for Shield armor bonus

Healing Bot:  Negates Armor Tier Boosts for armor

This is just one class.  There would be many more classes that I have no idea about that use these types of mechanics.  So using DR instead of armor, would dissuade players to not use my mod unless I included a bunch of skill changes for a bunch of classes.

PJ, I'm going to guess that any skill that reduces armor or buffs armor will be affected.  Just for the Engi we'd have to work on Bulwark, Sword and Board, Repair Bot and probably a few more.  With flat armor no longer being a thing none of these would work as intended.

What about a passive skill checking for incomming DMG. when your Life falls off more than 70%(??) in short time the skill will prok a shield buffer effect (to absorb the rest of the dmg).. this skill has a cooldown or you have to fully heal to reset it.

Do you guys know how Armor is calculated and what is calculated first, DR or Armor? lets say:

Spoiler (hover to show)

(2000 dmg - 100 armor) / 10% DR = 1710 dmg
(2000 dmg - 200 armor) / 10% DR = 1620 dmg
(2000 dmg - 300 armor) / 10% DR = 1530 dmg
(2000 dmg - 100 armor) / 20% DR = 1520 dmg
(2000 dmg - 200 armor) / 20% DR = 1440 dmg
(2000 dmg - 300 armor) / 20% DR = 1360 dmg
(2000 dmg - 100 armor) / 30% DR = 1330 dmg
(2000 dmg - 200 armor) / 30% DR = 1260 dmg
(2000 dmg - 300 armor) / 30% DR = 1190 dmg
=> Armor scales less and less with higher DR - current state?

(2000 dmg / 10% DR) - 100 Armor = 1700 dmg
(2000 dmg / 10% DR) - 200 Armor = 1600 dmg
(2000 dmg / 10% DR) - 300 Armor = 1500 dmg
(2000 dmg / 20% DR) - 100 Armor = 1500 dmg
(2000 dmg / 20% DR) - 200 Armor = 1400 dmg
(2000 dmg / 20% DR) - 300 Armor = 1300 dmg
(2000 dmg / 30% DR) - 100 Armor = 1300 dmg
(2000 dmg / 30% DR) - 200 Armor = 1200 dmg
(2000 dmg / 30% DR) - 300 Armor = 1100 dmg
=> better focus on Armor, effect is much higher

Can this be "patched" like your "remove 75% cap"

I thought of the %DR per xArmor too but I guess its better to boost Armor %based like for each 25 armor you get +10% Armor bonus

Spoiler (hover to show)

(2000 dmg - (100 +100*0.4) armor) / 10% DR = 1674 dmg
(2000 dmg - 280 armor) / 10% DR = 1548 dmg
(2000 dmg - 420 armor) / 10% DR = 1422 dmg
(2000 dmg - 140 armor) / 20% DR = 1488 dmg
(2000 dmg - 280 armor) / 20% DR = 1376 dmg
(2000 dmg - 420 armor) / 20% DR = 1264 dmg
(2000 dmg - 140 armor) / 30% DR = 1302 dmg
(2000 dmg - 280 armor) / 30% DR = 1204 dmg
(2000 dmg - 420 armor) / 30% DR = 1106 dmg
=> Armor outscales DR easy

(2000 dmg / 10% DR) - 140 Armor = 1660 dmg
(2000 dmg / 10% DR) - 280 Armor = 1520 dmg
(2000 dmg / 10% DR) - 420 Armor = 1380 dmg
(2000 dmg / 20% DR) - 140 Armor = 1460 dmg
(2000 dmg / 20% DR) - 280 Armor = 1320 dmg
(2000 dmg / 20% DR) - 420 Armor = 1180 dmg
(2000 dmg / 30% DR) - 140 Armor = 1260 dmg
(2000 dmg / 30% DR) - 280 Armor = 1120 dmg
(2000 dmg / 30% DR) - 420 Armor =   980 dmg
=> not sure which way its calculated. with this one 10% could be a bit off for balance

1) Your solution with shield buffers is an arbitrary crutch. You can make a passive to 100% apply shield buffer on hit, but you still will die from 80k oneshots if your hp is below that.
2) A passive checking for amount of incoming damage seems impossible to me.
3) You are right about current state on armor/DR interaction.
4) That's quite an interesting work-around for DR cap. But:
4.1) Your calculations are either off or it's not a +10% armor bonus. It's +10 armor per 25 armor as is. The former and the latter are equal only for 100 armor case.
4.2) You're looking from the wrong perspective. 2000 damage is never a problem in TL2. Consider that most monsters hit for 2000 damage, but some could hit for 20000. How big should be your total armor? ~1500? Not nearly good enough. ~15000? Then it's D3-style, where most trash mobs can't go through your defense until very late into the game.
That's why %DR is more fair in it's core. The only issue is how %DR ramps your survivablity. Ideally you need a curve so 100 armor equals 15%DR but 1000 armor equals 30%.


P.S. good job on necroing a one year old thread 
P.P.S. Oh, first post. Hi, everyone! 

EDIT: yes, and depending on how the game engine interprets stuff your idea may or may not lead to fatal error, since you're basically giving more armor per armor, so every update could cause your armor to increase uncontrollably. I haven't tried it though.

Quote from: Karkozi the All-Powerful on October 16, 2015, 10:23:28 pm

1) Your solution with shield buffers is an arbitrary crutch. You can make a passive to 100% apply shield buffer on hit, but you still will die from 80k oneshots if your hp is below that.
2) A passive checking for amount of incoming damage seems impossible to me.

Well there is an UI element called Game State Controller and in the logic it has some interesting things like "player HP below 90 - 10 %". I'll use the below 10% to activate a stat operator creating a stat x. The player has a passive skill using the "absorb dmg" effect over y seconds. this skill requires stat x. gonna test it tonight.

The calculation are just random numbers to show how things work... and yeah i was thinking in the direction of D3 even if i dont like all the ballsy numbers. we might find another way?

Ugh. Checked this Game State Controller you told me about. Seems completely unrelated to me. But anyway, you're right, it should be possible with Stat Evaluator block. Thanks, btw, I didn't knew of that feature. I'm still opposed to systems where you take damage first and receive a shield later.

I really don't have an answer on this topic though. You may just nerf one-shots and buff armor, but one could just play normal instead of elite for the very same result. It's taking the thrill away.

Hey lolesch,

I think it's your skill setup.

Try this:

Passive Skill:
No execute skill here
No stat_watcher
Instead apply affix with the effect: CAST SKILL ON STRUCK and input no_one_shot_proc into the NAME field.

Proc Skill:
Put the stat_watcher below the LEVEL class, like this:
[LEVEL1]
[EVENT_START]
         [EXECUTE_SKILL]
         [/EXECUTE_SKILL]
      [/EVENT_START]
[/LEVEL1]
         [STATWATCHER]
            <STRING>STAT:NO_ONE_SHOT
            <STRING>PRIMARY_TARGET_TYPE:SELF
            <STRING>SECONDARY_TARGET_TYPE:VALUE
            <STRING>WATCH_TYPE:GREATER THAN OR EQUAL TO
            <FLOAT>SECONDARY_VALUE:1
         [/STATWATCHER]
The indentation's wonky, but I'm too lazy to fix it.

Error?!?  Noooooo.... 

If you need further help, feel free to post back with your updated affix/skill text like you did above.  But, for errors thrown on a skill activation, I'd guess the most likely culprit is an improper file reference.  I'd look at all the NAME fields and file names I'm working with.

Hey welcome to the forums Karkozi! Sorry for the late greeting but it's nice to have you here