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Author Topic: Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills  (Read 11593 times)

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Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills
« on: »
And about skill rebalance..

Some skill that could use a nerf
- Prismatic Bolt
- Fire Brand/Ice Brand/Lightning Brand
- Glaive Throw
- Venomous Hail

skills that could use some buff
- entire Storm skill tree of Embermages except Prismatic Bolt
- Stormclaw
- Savage Rush
- Rapid Fire (either cut the mana cost or increase dps%)
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Re: Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills
« Reply #1 on: »
Phase 2 of this mod project.

The idea is to rebalance the 4 original classes by changing their skills to be more suitable for deeper builds and better themed with the newly added skill sets.

There are issues though, "rebalance" is a very subjective term.

I wanted to be sure that we will proceed for "Fair" and not "Preferred".

To make this process a bit more objective and concise, I propose for a single-oriented goal:

Default


Choose Neutralization


Choose Complimentary


Which path to take would be decided by steffire3 but anyone is free to give their view.

Suggestions for mod users should also be commented here. Thanks! :)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 08:12:17 pm by doudley »
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Re: Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills
« Reply #2 on: »
Complimentary sounds good.

also a proposed changes, will post more if necessary

Outlander
Spoiler (hover to show)

Berserker
Change the chargebar effect : +100% crit > +50% crit and +25% attack speed or crit damage

Embermage
Change the chargebar effect : -100% mana cost > -50% mana cost and +25% cast speed

Engineer
- Either 1) Nerf Forcefield or 2) Reduce or remove the innate -25% damage taken passive

« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 08:20:40 am by Viz »
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Re: Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills
« Reply #3 on: »
These are very helpful Viz, more proposed changes would be awesome!

Honestly, if you are only on Steam, you and steffire3 might be working together directly on this, you guys seems to view these stuff much closer than I and you have more experience on class skills than I am too. That way I could focus on additional 2 skills for each skill tree much quicker. ;)

I think Bramble Wall can be increased by HP % if inserted with a new affix that affects the summoned pets (walls)

For the engineer, I choose nerf Forcefield rather than removed their -25% to all damage taken. This melee_damage_bonus effect was intended for both engineer and berserker exclusively, so that they will be differentiated from long range classes like the other two, outlander and embermage. If we remove that effect on engineer then I will propose to remove it from berserker also, thus neutralized.

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Re: Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills
« Reply #4 on: »
Well, we can always have a discussion at the Discord server. Ask steffire to drop by.
Here's more proposed changes.

Outlander
Spoiler (hover to show)

will post changes for other class later
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 03:55:12 am by Viz »
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Re: Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: doudley on May 19, 2017, 07:10:38 pm
Honestly, if you are only on Steam, you and steffire3 might be working together directly on this, you guys seems to view these stuff much closer than I and you have more experience on class skills than I am too. That way I could focus on additional 2 skills for each skill tree much quicker. ;)

@doudley and @steffire3 , speaking from experience I agree with doudley your project will go faster if there are more people doing coding :P You might want to divide the work into groups of skills and "assign" (more or less) these groups to people.

Right now I'm just a little busy because of the TL1CP update we're trying to finish. but I would be happy to help as soon as we finish and I have more time.

Meanwhile pls start aking your coding questions already - if it's just answering questions and giving tips and hints, we always find time for that ;)
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Re: Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills
« Reply #6 on: »
Here's the proposed changes for Embermage

Spoiler (hover to show)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 09:08:53 am by Viz »
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Re: Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills
« Reply #7 on: »
@Viz I like your suggestions!

Here are some proposals I made over on "Steam".

Spoiler (hover to show)

The reason for this suggestion is given in the next spoiler:

Spoiler (hover to show)

I made another suggestion about making the Outlander Sigil Skills deal more with Ice:

Spoiler (hover to show)

I also ask if it's possible to change the Electric (Shocked) Effect:

Spoiler (hover to show)

The Link provided below leads to a mod that improves the "Shockbolts" Skill:

Spoiler (hover to show)

The following Link leads to a mod that addresses the very serious issue concerning a lack of viable methods to gain any large amount of "X% of All Damage Reduction".

Spoiler (hover to show)

Feedback is appreciated! We want this mod to provide players with more balanced options and diverse builds.

Spoiler (hover to show)

 :)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 06:41:27 am by steffire3 »
Logged
At this point after playing Torchlight 2 for 8 years original and modded... ignorant of mods and now wise with compatibility... the one thing I value the most-

-is being able to have "support" from the author of any mod.

I think the only advice I can give is that you don't burn yourself out. ^_^
Re: Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills
« Reply #8 on: »
@Viz
Thank you, thank you for being game on this project, you are officially a collaborator (if that's okay with you).

@steffire3
I think Viz has a much better hindsight with class skills' workarounds than my vapid execution of code changes. Solidify the rebalance as much as you can.

@Phanjam
Thank you and the concern is much appreciated. :)

@Everyone
I'm curious to see how these skill changes will go and how well its going to be planned out. I just published my remod for AG's dungeon challenge and I still got my UI mod to post next. ;D After that I want to fulfill a request about a remod of pet shop and an update for BiA: warbounds. :D I hope by then, rebalance is solid for massive coding!
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Re: Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills
« Reply #9 on: »
Uhm wait, why do Outlander needs to have Ice damage?  :o

If I understand correctly, you want more damage option for each classes to promote build diversity.
It's nice to have another damage supported for each classes, but thematically, it doesn't fit the class.

Personally I viewed each class to have their own damage themes and I wish that we doesn't stray from what Runic has intended for them.

Spoiler (hover to show)

But if you insist on your ideas, I understand and will go along with it.  :)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 10:03:14 pm by Viz »
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Re: Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills
« Reply #10 on: »
@Viz I knew those Icelanders would be questionable.  :D

It's nothing more than a suggestion, I have to consider the fact that some players will not want Ice to replace Physical Outlander Skill Damage.

We can always just have "Elemental Cunning" boost Physical Damage at Rank 15 by 50% and keep "Ice Damage Boosts" only available on 2 Classes total.

Everything else matches your description yet it's a question of whether "Elemental Boost" Skills should have asymmetrical boosts or symmetrical ones.

In other words:

Do Outlanders keep their max 60% Poison Damage Boost or will it be lowered to 50% max and will Fire Damage Boost be raised to the same percentage?

A similar question can be asked for the Engineer and Berserker as well.

Spoiler (hover to show)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 04:02:14 am by steffire3 »
Logged
At this point after playing Torchlight 2 for 8 years original and modded... ignorant of mods and now wise with compatibility... the one thing I value the most-

-is being able to have "support" from the author of any mod.

I think the only advice I can give is that you don't burn yourself out. ^_^
Re: Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills
« Reply #11 on: »
maybe we could make Elemental Cunning like..
Spoiler (hover to show)
and the Ice and Electric boost should be removed to avoid being OP


While Berserker Cold Storm Mastery could be like
Spoiler (hover to show)
since Ice can get plenty of boost from Shatter Storm

Armor Fix sounds pretty good. Implement it  ;)

Also.. I noticed that you buffed the Monster Mastery tier bonuses even further. I tested the 'health stolen to master' and it doesn't seemed to work properly. I think the 'health stolen on hit' is pretty OP. If the 'health stolen to master' works, that's even more broken, right..? Since you technically gets +400 health on every hit.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 07:26:07 am by Viz »
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Re: Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: Viz on May 22, 2017, 07:17:35 am
Armor Fix sounds pretty good. Implement it  ;)
Cool! I think I'll add this soon along with LMB skills and general skills fix.

Quote from: Viz on May 22, 2017, 07:17:35 am
Also.. I noticed that you buffed the Monster Mastery tier bonuses even further. I tested the 'health stolen to master' and it doesn't seemed to work properly. I think the 'health stolen on hit' is pretty OP. If the 'health stolen to master' works, that's even more broken, right..? Since you technically gets +400 health on every hit.
steffire3 thoughtfully considered how Monster Mastery would work on my human companion mods, that's why we included the tier effect "health stolen to master" in it. It is not meant for the player's benefit.

EDIT:
@Viz
But yeah, I think its wise to just simply remove that transfer to master effect not only it adds confusion, it also would be OP when used by human companions.

These pet exclusive effects made me realize that their purpose have been inaccessible in my human companion mods because I designed them to not be able to wear collars and studs.  :-\
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 11:00:59 pm by doudley »
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Re: Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills
« Reply #13 on: »
Alright, if that's the case then its all good. I'll suggest Berserker changes sometime later.
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Re: Skills Expansion: Rebalanced Native Skills
« Reply #14 on: »
We will be making 2 versions of this mod for:

Vanilla

and

Synergies

So we will have 2 different versions with appropriate power levels.

Thank you for your support!
Logged
At this point after playing Torchlight 2 for 8 years original and modded... ignorant of mods and now wise with compatibility... the one thing I value the most-

-is being able to have "support" from the author of any mod.

I think the only advice I can give is that you don't burn yourself out. ^_^
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