Character Stats

#15 Reply
Posted by RnF on 28 Aug, 2014 19:36
Actually it isn't all that weird. I like the idea and it intrigues me. I was just wondering what your thinking was behind it. It's something to consider for sure. Crossbows are really ho-hum. They need work to differentiate from bows. This would be a start.

#16 Reply
Posted by RnF on 28 Aug, 2014 21:24
There is a potential issue with this though. If someone put points in Str and Dex they would get a damage bonus from both. It might not work unless you excluded crossbows.

To get around this, you wouldn't use a "Ranged Weapon" unittype on the affix for the damage. You would want to list only the unittypes to get a damage bonus (Bow, Rifle, Pistol, Fist).

#17 Reply
Posted by gytfunke on 28 Aug, 2014 22:12
Quote from: RnF on 28 Aug, 2014 21:24
There is a potential issue with this though. If someone put points in Str and Dex they would get a damage bonus from both. It might not work unless you excluded crossbows.

To get around this, you wouldn't use a "Ranged Weapon" unittype on the affix for the damage. You would want to list only the unittypes to get a damage bonus (Bow, Rifle, Pistol, Fist).

You can do that with Affixes? That is so much easier than what I had in mind...

#18 Reply
Posted by RnF on 28 Aug, 2014 22:56
Yes you can. Affixes are actually really flexible. That is what's to great about them. You could also choose Ranged Weapons as a unittype and put crossbows as a "notunittype" and it should exclude them from the affix. I would just list the items out though, it's easier that way.

#19 Reply
Posted by RnF on 09 Sep, 2014 21:42
Thinking Fists should utilize Strength and not Dexterity

See this post for reasons

#20 Reply
Posted by gytfunke on 09 Sep, 2014 23:37
Yessir.

#21 Reply
Posted by gytfunke on 21 Sep, 2014 21:53
Hey RnF,

Started plinking away at this. Going well. I need your input on a few values.

#How much HP should Vitality provide per point? Currently its 3.6, maybe we could bump it because this is an insignificant value?

#How much HP Regen should Vitality provide? I'm thinking this could be percentage-based with diminishing returns. So maybe 0.05% regen/s per point of Vitality to start, maxing out at ~15-20% per second for an investment of 500 Vitality? With ~1000 health at maybe level 20 you could get your Vitality up to 100, which could give you 4-5%/s, i.e. 40-50 HP per second. Doesn't seem OP, but significant enough. Would really cut down on potion use and make the character more survivable without making them immune to overwhelming damage or large crits.

#How much attack and cast speed should Dexterity provide? I'm thinking 0.15 (15% bonus per 100 stat points, +75% at 500 dex)

#Did you want to modify the values on any of the other stat bonuses? I'm otherwise leaving bonuses the same (0.5% damage bonus from a point of Str/Dex/Focus).

Also, these seem like rather large numbers to achieve, but should I extend the graphs so that players can benefit from adding even more to their stat of choice?

#22 Reply
Posted by gytfunke on 21 Sep, 2014 22:51
Another thing:

What would you like to set the following base values at? These are no longer modified by stats as they once were, so we can start them wherever we'd like:

Fumble (currently leaving it at the vanilla value: 21%)
Fumble Recovery (vanilla: 25%)
Dodge (currently 5%)
Block (0%, leave it to the shields to add block?)
Crit Chance (currently 5%)

#23 Reply
Posted by RnF on 22 Sep, 2014 20:01
Quote from: gytfunke on 21 Sep, 2014 21:53
Hey RnF,

Started plinking away at this. Going well. I need your input on a few values.

#How much HP should Vitality provide per point? Currently its 3.6, maybe we could bump it because this is an insignificant value?

#How much HP Regen should Vitality provide? I'm thinking this could be percentage-based with diminishing returns. So maybe 0.05% regen/s per point of Vitality to start, maxing out at ~15-20% per second for an investment of 500 Vitality? With ~1000 health at maybe level 20 you could get your Vitality up to 100, which could give you 4-5%/s, i.e. 40-50 HP per second. Doesn't seem OP, but significant enough. Would really cut down on potion use and make the character more survivable without making them immune to overwhelming damage or large crits.

#How much attack and cast speed should Dexterity provide? I'm thinking 0.15 (15% bonus per 100 stat points, +75% at 500 dex)

#Did you want to modify the values on any of the other stat bonuses? I'm otherwise leaving bonuses the same (0.5% damage bonus from a point of Str/Dex/Focus).

Also, these seem like rather large numbers to achieve, but should I extend the graphs so that players can benefit from adding even more to their stat of choice?

I don't think tripling the HP bonus per vitality point is out of the question. That would be approximately 6k HP at 500 points. We could tone it down to 4500. I do plan adding the %HP bonus for affixes. It would be quite useful, and give the player some room to inflate their HP. So maybe starting at double the HP bonus is a good place to start.

I think your HP regen is good.

Same with your attack speed for dex.

All other stats should stay the same.

I think extending the graphs to 750 is a good idea. Could open up some interesting builds.

As far as your next post about base stats, lets leave them alone for the time being.

#24 Reply
Posted by gytfunke on 23 Sep, 2014 14:16
Hey RnF,

So, a quirk has arisen in trying to work out the application of the Affix that dictates bonuses derived from player stats.

Characters don't inherit skills, affixes or effects from the base player file. So, to get around this we need to make sure new and old characters alike can get the affix if someone wants to play with the Item Overhaul.

To make it easy for new characters of the base classes I'm adding to the affix to the base class file, which does inherit to the M/F versions of the class.

For older characters I'm thinking I'll add consumable items that can be purchased from general merchants for 0 gold. 'The Red Pill' will allow them to apply the affix that makes them fully compatible with the stat overhaul. 'The Blue Pill' will revert them to Vanilla status.

What say you, RnF?

#25 Reply
Posted by RnF on 23 Sep, 2014 14:54
I think that is a good solution. It might be the only way from what you are saying.

Having the pills always available from vendors is a good too, like you are saying.

Edit: How does this work for modded players? They have to consume the pill to get the bonus correct?

Having a quest NPC or a chest for the player at the start area is a good way to get the player the pill.

#26 Reply
Posted by gytfunke on 23 Sep, 2014 16:13
The pills work the same for modded characters and custom character classes. I just need to hook the Affix to them once and they're golden.

New custom class characters will NOT start with the affix applied and will need to consume a pill. So, yes, including a starting chest in addition to making them for sale at the merchants is a good idea.

#27 Reply
Posted by RnF on 23 Sep, 2014 16:17
Ok, that is what I thought. Just needed confirmation. I can find a way to get it implimented. Thanks.

#28 Reply
Posted by Phanjam on 23 Sep, 2014 19:25
"Take the red pill, and see how deep the rabbit hole goes"
MWAHAHAHA!!!!

#29 Reply
Posted by gytfunke on 24 Sep, 2014 11:56
Mmmmm.... hey. It's done.

You can get it here. And so can anyone else if they want to try it out. I will warn y'all that it's not complete without RnF's forthcoming item overhaul, but it could be fun. Certainly makes Veteran more of a challenge.

So, RnF.... here's a little changelog/description of the stat overhaul.

#Mainly, adds the affix overhaul_player_stats_gyt.dat. This affix contains the passive bonuses that we talked about. To adjust the values, just adjust the MIN/MAX values for an effect. No need to play with graphs.

#Overwrites the secondary stat bonus graphs (such as crit chance, dodge chance, execute, etc) so that primary stats (str, dex, etc) no longer give a bonus to these attributes.

#Causes all new vanilla-class characters to come with the overhaul_player_stats_gyt affix.

#Adds The Red Pill and The Blue Pill which are available at all general merchants (using Roalith's spawnclass merge technique)

#Adds a quest NPC to the Vanquisher camp complete with a quest to dole out a Red Pill to new non-vanilla-class characters.

#Changes the UI to remove elements that were broken by overwriting certain graphs and elements that are now nonsensical.

EDIT: The link is fixed and now leads to the correct file.