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Of course. To be fair, this isn't the first time something works or shows up in GUTS but not in-game, or vice versa, and definitely not just for me, but anyway.
Here are the files.
Main beam, which is the thing that sort-of works. Now, my guess as to why there are 2 different COUNT entries is because 2 layouts were merged into one, then saved as that one file. Probably anyway.
This is the exhaust effect.
Again, two COUNT entries because of layout merging. It doesn't seem to be causing issues as such, but this is the first time I'm dealing with this so not 100% sure. At this point, I'm just glad it shows up at all, even if slightly broken :\
That's it for the files from MEDIA/PARTICLES/WEAPONS, now the missile file itself.
And that's all. I got work later so only got enough time to post all this but, off the top of my head, the few things which could be causing breakages might be beam emitter orientation/geometry rotation/texture animation, or missile's USE OWNER TARGET set to false, but that didn't stop it from working.
Logically, the weapon/missile works, enemies get damaged by it from very long range and pressing attack with "hold position" can kill them through world geometry, as intended. -
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Double post, oops...
Ok, so. The update is out for a few days now, claw with Raze proc works flawlessly, Rail Driver is probably the pinnacle of my modding abilities and other things were an exercise in affixes.
With that in mind, I wanted to ask for some advice/suggestions. Claw is Berserker-inspired, and I had some more ideas regarding vanilla class-themed uniques.
One of them is a greathammer that procs emberquake and....that's it.
I have no idea which weapons and skill-based procs to use for Outlander and Embermage.
Summons are out of the question, since that's most likely too complex to be contained in a proc, plus it could get out of hand if more than one brute/avatar/sledgebot start roaming the field.
A random thought was to maybe give wands some much needed attention. They're largely neglected, especially if a skill relies on weapon DPS rather than a damage graph.
But that's just brainstorming out loud. I'd like to hear some ideas, as long as they're not overly elaborate and remain on basic implementation level. -
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Hi @F430, I have some ideas that might be used.
Have you tried this mod Ruination. This mod is a compilation of weapons which I think is very unique. There are 4 different weapons, Minigun (v.9), Flamethrower, Rifle & Light Saber. And I think the four weapons can still be developed and need to be improved a little further.
Minigun [Canon]
In the latest Minigun Weapon (v.10) mod, the weapon can automatically cool down, but unfortunately he eliminates stop firing when the weapon is hot and can cool itself when not firing weapons. That way I thought maybe it would be better to remove spell coolant because its function was not needed anymore.
Flamethrower [Canon]
I feel the animation from the flame burst is too big and less smooth when the fire spurts need to be refined. I also hope that this weapon can be treated the same as the Minigun, when the heat of this weapon stops firing and can cool itself when not firing weapons.
Rifle / Sniper [Shotguns]
In this weapon, in my opinion what still needs to be fixed is the accuracy. Because when shooting sometimes the bullet doesn't hit the enemy even though it's already at a shooting distance. Maybe you can add a penetrating effect, to feel like a real sniper.
Light Saber [1H Sword]
It might be possible to add a penetrating effect, to feel like a sniper Still lacking light saber weapons for 2h sword. And the effect reflects a projectile attack.
Other ideas:
Laser Gun & Laser Rifle [Pistol] [Shotguns]
More or less the same as the Lightsaber theme but this is on the Pistol & Shotguns. You can see this weapon in Noddyngineering !! (v.830) Mod.
Mortar [Canon]
Unlike Canon, which shoots like a shotgun, mortar shoots with one ball bullet and when it hits the ground / enemy it will explode and cause it to burn around.
Assault Rifle [Shotguns]
The idea is more or less the same as the Minigun, only this is applied to the shotguns and is made so that this weapon fires there in the gap (pause for a moment) as a substitute for weapons that can heat up.
Bow Gun [Pistol]
X-bow weapon that can be used as a gun. Examples are in THE SCOUT Mod. Maybe it can be added to the Stun effect, so that it becomes Stun-gun.
Wind Blade [1H & 2H Sword, Axe, Claw]
Use the power charge skill that is in the engineer class who can make weapons firing energy wave attacks. This will be good for melee weapons like: 1H & 2H Sword, Axe, Claw.
Upgrade Bow & X-Bow [Bow & X-Bow]
Give splash / burst damage to Bow & X-Bow. And can be developed again by making Bleed enemies when hit by a critical attack. or you can add "Deep Penetration & Maiming Blow" skills like those in the Mongol Archer Class (FEP+).
Fist Blast [Claw]
When hitting an opponent with critical hit, it will trigger the skill to blast the opponent. Like hitting with Black powder, the enemy will be hit back and will suffer from burning.
Grenadier [Throwing Weapon]
There are already weapons that can be thrown like throwing swords, hammers, & axes. But no one has thrown a Bomb. This weapon is like a bomb that will explode and when the critical hit the effect will be more stronger, besides exploding it will burn the surroundings. -
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How about a "Sub Auto Pistol"? Absolute fastest ranged weapon yet only gets Melee range? A Melee weapon that benefits from Ranged Damage.
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@Sch123 I'd like to entertain the thought of making weapons that require some advanced scripts like stat watchers, complex particles, damage shapes et al.
Sadly, my expertise will not allow me to, especially for the likes of minigun, flamethrower and lightsaber. The latter moreso since it would require a custom model, and I have no clue how to use 3dsmax besides a few tutorials I've done over a decade ago.
As for the rifle, Rail Driver mostly does what you want, and beyond. It fires piercing "projectiles" that can go through enemies, shields, armour and even world geometry. The weapon accuracy issue seems to be persistent in vanilla as well as modded games, since, in my view, it doesn't connect unless the enemy hitboxes are aligned in a specific way, which I doubt is something I can fix, nor would want to, since the base weapon I made is already arguably overpowered, considering it shoots through everything and, with "force attack", doesn't require line of sight at all.
Moving on.
Laser weapons are feasible, but would most likely require making new unit types so they can utilise custom firing particles and damage shapes. Without that, those seem to be more or less hardcoded and I never had any luck finding which files are referenced for firing sequences and so on.
There's already a mortar-esque projectile [under "missiles"] in the stock game that could be reused for what you want, but the technicalities behind it don't make it all that useful, since it has both maximum and minimum strike range, thus eliminating a lot of applications for it.
If you want an assault rifle that fires in bursts, I wouldn't have a clue where to start. If you want something that's faster than a shotgun but with less damage, anyone can do it in GUTS by dropping damage graph offset and increasing weapon speed.
Stun gun, while amusing at first, could be either gamebreaking or completely useless. Useless against bosses because they got stun resistance, gamebreaking on standard mobs and even champions, since you can just stunlock everything to death, especially if it deals damage on top of being able to stun enemies.
For wind blade, same case as with burst assault rifles - I wouldn't even know how to start this sort of thing.
Crossbow splash damage can be done via missiles. Bleed or whatever other debuff can be/might be done with affixes with unitthemes that activate via transfer. I think...
Fist blast, again, stat watchers and specific game events. Way above my league. Same for thrown weapons.
Now, being a party pooper aside, what I was initially asking for was some suggestion on vanilla player class skills to dumb down into a single-level skill which I could then use as a proc.
Example: a greathammer, which is a weapon suitable for an engineer, using emberquake, which is an engineer skill.
Bottom line is, a class-themed weapon that doesn't actually require you to be that class to use it.
@steffire3 unless I got it wrong, a pistol cannot be both a pistol and a melee weapon without some funky unittype/item hierarchy editing.
If you meant a pistol that's got microscopic range but still works like one and gets ranged bonuses, then that should only be a matter of shrinking strike/approach range to those of a claw/sword. -
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@F430 :
Yes it's still a ranged weapon that allows a ranger to fight within Melee Range without requiring Melee Damage.
@Phanjam did attempt Dual Wielded Shield Weapons and that was interesting.
@RnF months ago was also trying to create a thrown Fire Ball from the hand and also a telepathic fire pillar which would strike one foe regardless of obstacles since it came from the air above.
And of course I am still interested in a Flame Thrower that can shoot the other 3 elements.
Also imagine a Pistol that shot Elemental Gust like a Wand? -
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@steffire3 I get it now. But surely there has to be some offset to this sort of mechanic. Higher DPS? Fire rate? Powerful affixes?
Also, I just got a random idea for another weapon: revolver that could [potentially] work as the Tornado from MGS5, ricocheting off surfaces to strike enemies.
Again, it would be a matter of using missiles instead of base firing effects, but I'm not sure whether you can hit an enemy, then have the missile strike another, then another, and so on until it reaches max ricochet count and disappears.
Another thing: if it can't ricochet off enemies and bounces off walls instead - what if it hits a slope or any uneven surface? Does it go up? Or does it ignore the angle and continue travelling along the ground?
@Phanjam or anyone else who might know: whilst working on the railgun, I came across something I had to rely on guesswork to figure out. Stun affix has an entry called IGNORE_RESISTANCE.
If that was a bool, then yeah, fair game. But it's a float, and having scanned every single stun affix, there are 3 possible values: -1, 0 and 1. Any idea as to how those values change the affix itself? -
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@F430 for ricocheting bullets they ricochet of world but not mobs. If theyre piercing they can go thru the mobs and keep ricocheting until they hit their distance setting or their # of ricochets setting.
About the ignore resistance, pretty sure 0 is false, 1 is true. But dont know what -1 will do
Lastly about class-themed weap procs from their vanilla skills, i suggest u try someof berserkers wolf skills. Yes they are summons but they can proc from on_strike AND your skill level can handle it easily (despite your assertions to the contrary). Will be happy to guide
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@Phanjam maybe -1 just means that the field is commented out? Kinda? If memory serves, I've seen hail stones use -1, some outlander skills use 1 and few engineer debuffs[?] use 0. I probably got it wrong but no matter.
As for the skill, not really a berserker player, but I'm all ears as far as ideas go, especially since you seem confident tha I can pull it off, unlike Sch123's suggestions, which are simply waaay above anything that I can reasonably pull off.
Lastly, if the above doesn't fly, I can jump ship and do the ricochet revolver based on steff's input, since I personally like that idea. Also because pistols are really underpowered late-game.
Edit: I had another look at that ruination weapon pack. Any idea how Viz got a standard attack to ignore shields? I always thought that it's impossible without having to destroy the shield, which still requires a second shot to kill whoever was using it. -
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@F430 :
I really like the MGS Tornado Pistol Idea.
Also an Auto Pistol is extremely useful in shooter games and likewise in TL2 in fact the name itself implies that it has near Maximum Attack Speed.
That kind of Speed equals a great increase in Skill DPS and Affix Procs for all sources that can interact with the Weapon.
It's the ultimate speedy Gun that trades all it's range for the ability to unload a hail of bullets and effects at point blank range.
It's different from the Claw since it's designed to allow Rangers to use something that even Berserkers don't have access to which is Ranged Close Combat Max Speed Weapons.
It would open the Outlander to an entire new realm of Melee possibilities if the Warfare and Sigil Skills are used with it.
And it's still classed as a Pistol by the game. -
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@steffire3 sounds good and it's definitely do-able, but I'm pondering things like animations.
When developing the railgun, I found out that animations are tied to weapon speed, so it's not a standard case of aim -> fire -> put down -> wait for timer -> repeat. The whole aim/fire/put down animation timeline is scaled to match the attack speed.
Now, I'm not 100% sure how fast you can go without things looking broken. I reckon 0.48s is the minimum the game will let you use unless you attach skills that override animations. Feasible, but it's more legwork to more or less achieve the same thing.
On top of that, some weapons seem to have hardcoded attack speed intervals, eg. you can't have a claw that has 0.68 attack speed and the game will make it use either 0.60 or 0.72 and I have no idea how to change it, and I definitely tried.
The claw from v.86 update was balance-tested by increasing attack delay, but it was firmly stuck at 0.60s. Perhaps some properties cannot be changed after all, or it's just an engine limitation.
Anyway, I got a rough idea on how to do your close quarters pistol, I would just need you to give me some stats, like item level, speed, damage modifiers, elemental distribution and the likes, same for affixes.
Oh, and I've only just realised. A simple attack speed affix can override weapon speed, but anything below 0.48s might look odd, but hopefully it should work. -
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@F430 : Thanks!
That's that mean that Great Weapons (Two Handed) are hard coded to not attack below a base of 0.80 seconds discounting Attack Speed Affixes? Just curious.
For the Auto Pistol below :
0.48 or 0.60 might be the fastest possible base speed so that would be my choice depending on which is feasible.
level 15, type Ice, DPS 100, 1% Chance : Glacial Strike, Scalding Geyser, Immobile 1s. 4% Fumble Chance Reduced.
level 30, type Electric, DPS 200, 2% Chance : Thunder, Lightning, Stun 1s. 2 Mana Stolen on hit.
level 45, type Poison, DPS 300, 3% Chance : Acid Rain, Poison Cloud, Blindness 1s. -20 Armor on hit 5s.
level 60, type Physical, DPS 400, 4% Chance : Eviscerate, Tiamat Wrath, Silence 1s. 4% Fumble Penalty Reduced.
level 75, type Fire, DPS 500, 5% Chance : Meteor, Fire Rain, Break Shields. 20 Health Stolen on hit.
level 96, type Ice, DPS 600, 6% Chance : Glacial Strike, Scalding Geyser, Immobile 1s. 8% Fumble Chance Reduced.
level 97, type Electric, DPS 700, 7% Chance : Thunder, Lightning, Stun 1s. 4 Mana Stolen on hit.
level 98, type Poison, DPS 800, 8% Chance : Acid Rain, Poison Cloud, Blindness 1s. -40 Armor on hit 5s.
RED LEGENDARY BELOW:
level 99, type Physical, DPS 900, 9% Chance : Eviscerate, Tiamat Wrath, Silence 1s. 8% Fumble Penalty Reduced.
level 100, type Fire, DPS 1000, 10% Chance : Meteor, Fire Rain, Break Shields. 40 Health Stolen on hit. -
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@steffire3
Not sure about larger two-handers, since I never used melee weapons besides claws, purely due to high DPS. Maybe it's just a matter of balancing.
Few notes about your suggestions:
- silence cannot be triggered based on percentage, I'm afraid; it's either present or not
- "-x armour per hit" does not work on specific time; it's attached to every weapon hit
I'm going to go with 0.5s attack speed for ease of DPS calculation and prefix all names with "CQC", use common names like Pistol/Sidearm/Revolver/etc, then just add a generic description to all of them.
Edit: I'm running into some issues with weapon DPS. I'm using identical min/max damage graph % values and they continue producing completely random results. Instead of 100 dps, I'm getting anywhere between 90 and 130.
I'm assuming pistols use BASE_WEAPON_DAMAGE graph and not something hardcoded. Also, my calculations seem a bit off even though I took all modifiers like speed/rarity/special, as well as actual firerate of the weapon.
Above worked flawlessly when calculating armour for the initial mod release, but for weapons it just doesn't add up.
Edit 2: for the sake of clarity, this is how I'm trying to calculate damage:
84 * 0.50 * 0.60 * 1.60 * 1.20 * 2.08(3)
84 is base damage at level 15; 0.50 is percentage of dmg graph; 0.60 is speed dmg mod; 1.60 is rarity dmg mod; 1.20 is special dmg mod; 2.08(3) is multiplier based on weapon speed which is 0.48s, listed as 60 in the editor.
Using above numbers and multipliers, DPS should be 100.799, yet it's nowhere near that and remains completely random.
Edit 3: I'm an idiot. I forgot that removing all affixes will make the game assign random ones, and those can affect DPS. The value is static now, both in "game mode" and in DPS chart viewer, but it still refuses to add up. Total DPS should be approx. 100, but I'm getting 86 instead.
Edit 4: or not, I might have been doing this the wrong way. I reckon that with weapon speed 60, the multiplier shouldn't be "1 divided by attack speed", but "100 divided by weapon speed", meaning 2.08333 [1/0.48] gets changed to 1.60 [100/60], bringing the total DPS closer to what I wanted with 96.096 dps, but still a tiny bit off.
I just wish the calculation methods were a bit more transparent. -
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About wierd animation behavior for a fast firing weapon - i think what u can do is make the skill a looping one and use a looping animation (see the embie's magmaspear for how thats done - at least i think its magmaspear )
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@Phanjam this isn't really about skills this time, it's about simple weapons.
Scratch that, read below.
@steffire3 I can find all the listed ability affixes except for poison cloud. Are you sure it's not blinding cloud?
Edit: nevermind, there is a poison cloud. I somewhat managed to turn it into a standalone skill, then a proc. Similar issue as the one I had during initial testing of Raze proc: skill itself procs correctly and does damage, but the weapon doesn't.
To top it all off, I've done something to the skill that makes it proc on everything and everyone - enemies, smashables, you name it. And it seems to proc every single time it inflicts damage, making the game a lagfest.
Here's the lagfest version:
And here's the previous version that didn't cause a cascade of poison:
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