Author Topic: Skills on weapons (Read 16587 times)

F430 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 22, 2018, 06:49:10 am »

Help with something? Funny you should ask...

A week or so ago I've been pondering how to go about making a rather unusual weapon.
Long story short, it would be a shotgun, except not, for it would only rely on shotgun mesh and animation data and that would be it.

Now, for some background.
There is an old game called Red Faction that has a rather powerful weapon called the Rail Driver. It uses magnetic induction to propel metal rods to extreme speeds, allowing them to pierce multiple enemies and walls.
The idea was/is to make a weapon like that and have it re-use a legendary shotgun mesh/anim set.

Here's where the problems start, and there migth be a lot of them.
Shotguns have global particle system which cannot be changed just for one item, meaning I would need to create a new unittype that mostly copies rifle hierarchy.
Another issue would be making it work just like the railgun, namely having specific strike/approach range, but the "projectile" would be a beam that can pierce any enemies it hits, including those off-screen.
The only way I can imagine this to work is by using a missile, but missiles are physical entities rather that particle emitters with collision shapes.
I might be wrong but a possible fallback would be to use INVISIBLEFASTPIERCING as base and add actual particle system to it.
Alternatively, and again this is just guesswork, would be to copy arc beam skill, extend the range, turn it into a 100% chance proc, hide the affix and override duration and cooldown.

Condensed version of the above: how can I make a shotgun-like weapon that doesn't behave like one, fires from a specific distance, but can hit enemies beyond its effective range?

Sch123 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 22, 2018, 08:55:46 am »

Hi @F430

If you are interested in weapons that can use skill to attack you can see this Mod: UNITITEM. In this mod wand can attack with the skill, maybe you can put it on the weapon you want to give skill.

Quote

Now, for some background.
There is an old game called Red Faction that has a rather powerful weapon called the Rail Driver. It uses magnetic induction to propel metal rods to extreme speeds, allowing them to pierce multiple enemies and walls.
The idea was/is to make a weapon like that and have it re-use a legendary shotgun mesh/anim set.

Is like a Rail Cannon Weapon, very interesting.

Spoiler: Rail Driver (Armagedon) (hover to show)

F430 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 22, 2018, 12:10:47 pm »

That's only partially it. Instead of full skills, I'm going to try going for a less flashy beam based on embermage's arc beam. This is mainly due to several issues that can arise if the skill was used as a proc on the weapon, namely targeting range being bound to beam length, or at least that's what I gathered.

Anywho, I'm hoping it won't take long, since I've never used the particle before creator but I'm slowly getting used to it.
With that said, is there any way to force the particles to stop looping by adding a timeline logic entry to each particle segment? Or am I better off opening an existing fire effect, eg from a cannon/pistol/whichever, and modifying textures, render types, length, yadda yadda?

F430 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 27, 2018, 05:18:31 pm »

I'm going to double-post now and apologise later.

Firstly, no progress to report on, mainly due to recent heatwave turning my room into a greenhouse, which would get even worse if I was running games and whatnot.

Going back to the custom particle system thing, I got quite a few questions:
Even if I were to get it right in the end, how can I use it on a weapon if all/most weapons have pre-determined globals?
Does at least one of the entries need "PIERCING:true" bool or is that determined by "Damage Shape" particle logic info?
Is there something along the lines of "Render Scale Over Time", a logic controller that could change the scale [width/height] of the emitter along its lifespan?
Can I use a custom INT64 GUID as long as no other entry has the same one and does it always have to be 19 digits?
Which files determine .layout usage for particles? This question comes from weapons like crossbows seemingly not having base .layout files, or at least not referencing any.
In order to use any new/custom sounds, can I simply create a new soundbank and add entries to it, or would there be more to it?

That's all I can think of for now.
I know this is a LOT, but I would definitely appreciate if someone could shed some light on at least a couple of those.

Phanjam · « **Reply #19 on:** July 28, 2018, 06:25:30 am »

Hey F430

Quote from: F430

Even if I were to get it right in the end, how can I use it on a weapon if all/most weapons have pre-determined globals?

I tried looking for how the game attaches muzzle flashes during a firing animation (the particles themselves are in MEDIA\PARTICLES\WEAPONS, RIFLEMUZZLEFLASH.LAYOUT and PISTOLMUZZLEFLASH.LAYOUT) but i didnt see it right away. I think the answer to your question is tied to how the game attaches those...

Quote from: F430

Does at least one of the entries need "PIERCING:true" bool or is that determined by "Damage Shape" particle logic info?

PIERCING has to do specifically with MISSILE particles and governs whether or not they will continue to travel thru things. If you end up using a MISSILE as the particle for your railgun then yeah this could be a lot of fun

The damage shape is literally a shape within which some effect/s (usually damage of some kind) will impart themselves.

Quote from: F430

Is there something along the lines of "Render Scale Over Time", a logic controller that could change the scale [width/height] of the emitter along its lifespan?

For the Emmitter itself I usually just play aound with the settings under DIMENSIONS and EMMISSION. Like for scaling a particle I usually use the SCALEONLAUNCH setting under DIMENSONS.

Quote from: F430

Can I use a custom INT64 GUID as long as no other entry has the same one and does it always have to be 19 digits?

Yes you can use any random string of numerals and you can start it all off with a "-" sign too. And yes it does have tp be 19 digits.

Quote from: F430

Which files determine .layout usage for particles? This question comes from weapons like crossbows seemingly not having base .layout files, or at least not referencing any.

If the Xbows are just referencing each other, then one of them is acting as the "base". For the first part of this question, could you expound please?

Quote from: F430

In order to use any new/custom sounds, can I simply create a new soundbank and add entries to it, or would there be more to it?

The answer is yes, but if you run into any trouble we can look at the specifics of your usage f the sound

F430 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 28, 2018, 08:24:49 am »

Thanks for all the info Phanjam.

So, I've been deliberating between two options:

Make a new missile which would reuse parts of embermage's arc beam skill and use it on an existing weapon, eg shotgun.

---OR---

Make a completely new weapon type, use the new firing particle system for it and go from there.

I'm heavily leaning towards first option, since I can change item base to "base_<name>_noskill.dat" [missiles will not work unless this base is used] but I'm uncertain about a couple things:
Can missiles override default damage shapes, and can they use custom ones?
Will using a missile force the game to ignore default unit type particles and defer to any and all particles associated with said missile?
Besides a few dev test entries, most missiles are visible due to their speed, but with my fake rail driver, there is no real "speed" to speak of. It would have to be the same as a beam, and normally those are around 999 units/second or other high numbers.
Despite using the same extension, .layout files are split into two categories - code/logic and emitter data. If I were to use a missile, which editor section should I use? I'm asking this because I came across several instances where the editor said "invalid layout file type for this view" or something along the lines.

And for your request to expand on the crossbow example.
All units have bases, base hierarchies [any -> item -> takeable -> pistol] and base layouts located in MEDIA/SKILLS/WEAPONS.
Unless I'm blind, crossbows don't have any files/entries in the above directory, which leads me to believe that some things might be hardcoded, since there must be a way for the game to know that crossbows, like all equipment, will still have to use some firing particles.
As a side note, only collars, studs and polearms exist in UNITTYPES folders. Nothing for cannons, pistols, rifles, etc.
I'm sure there is a reason for it, but I can't really figure it out.

And there it is, another wall of text for anyone willing to plough through it...

Edit: currently messing about with triggerables to turn the previously discussed Raze proc into a weapon augmentation. The game crashes every time the triggerables are about to be removed and replaced with said proc. I've checked spelling, file references/names, extensions, character encoding and everything else I could think of and it still doesn't work.

Phanjam · « **Reply #21 on:** July 29, 2018, 12:01:32 am »

Hey F430!
First I found (well, new to me - you may already know this

) how MISSILEs are attached to weapon items. It's via a line in the item's unit .DAT that goes

<STRING>MISSILE:(name_of_missile)

Still haven't seen how MUZZLEFLASH or BOWARROW layouts are attached tho

So i've not yet helped with the Crossbow question...

Quote from: F430

Can missiles override default damage shapes, and can they use custom ones?

MISSILEs do not need to use damage shapes generally. Any damage AFFIXes you assign it in the skill are applied directly to the unit hit by the MISSILE. You can however add damage shapes via other blocks in the skill, usually EVENTMISSILEHIT(COLLIDE?) and EVENTMISSILEDIE

Quote from: F430

Will using a missile force the game to ignore default unit type particles and defer to any and all particles associated with said missile?

No, u may have noticed if you don't specify a "hit" or "die" particle for your MISSILE, it will play the standard hit particle of the unit that was hit. Also, using other EVENTMISSILE... layouts as described above, you can have any other non-missile particles play through those.

Quote from: F430

Besides a few dev test entries, most missiles are visible due to their speed, but with my fake rail driver, there is no real "speed" to speak of. It would have to be the same as a beam, and normally those are around 999 units/second or other high numbers.

That matter did cross my mind as well. You probably dont want a missile for a railgun skill, but an Emmitter instead. If you can, take apart the Pull skill of the Destroyer in TL1CP. That pull skill attaches particles that look like chains for like a second. Maybe this method at shorter duration could work for a railgun particle?

Quote from: F430

Despite using the same extension, .layout files are split into two categories - code/logic and emitter data. If I were to use a missile, which editor section should I use? I'm asking this because I came across several instances where the editor said "invalid layout file type for this view" or something along the lines.

Yes its confusing that there are layout layouts then there are particle layouts

. Particle layouts start with the header "Particle Creator" (or something like that) and they open only in the GUTS Particles tab. All other layout files, including MISSILE layout files, only open n the Layouts tab.

Quote from: F430

currently messing about with triggerables to turn the previously discussed Raze proc into a weapon augmentation. The game crashes every time the triggerables are about to be removed and replaced with said proc. I've checked spelling, file references/names, extensions, character encoding and everything else I could think of and it still doesn't work.

Can u copy-paste into the component files into

Code: [Select]

blocks in a reply here. I can try help with that directly...

F430 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 29, 2018, 08:01:41 am »

Thanks again, Phanjam, I really appreciate your help with all this.
The more I'm pondering this, the more I think missiles might be a good idea after all. Especially since they have bools like COLLIDES_WITH_OBJECTS and COLLIDES_WITH_WORLD, meaning they can noclip through everything, which is the whole idea. Now, if only I could find an entry that disables line of sight checks, like most skills allow you to, that would make it perfect.
I'll think about it some more later.
One thing I recall from "studying" the missile layouts/options yesterday, is that you should be able to have a very fast missile that's invisible and uses an existing emitter layout data under "FIRE" which, to my understandng, describes how the missile looks while active. Sadly, I can't merge different layout types for missiles AND emitters, like you said already, with GUTS splitting them into different sections. Best I can do is reference FIRE layout once I complete the edits and hope for the best.

Now, for the more unexpected thing, the triggerable crash.
I've had the game for over 5 years and this is genuinely the first time it started crashing.
Blocks of code are as follows:

Main affix applied to the item itself:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Code: [Select]

[AFFIX]
	<STRING>NAME:TRIGGERABLE_WEAPON_PROC_RAZE
	<INTEGER>RANK:0
	<INTEGER>MIN_SPAWN_RANGE:0
	<INTEGER>MAX_SPAWN_RANGE:999
	<FLOAT>DURATION:0
	<INTEGER>WEIGHT:0
	<INTEGER>SLOTS_OCCUPY:0
	[EFFECT]
		<STRING>NAME:WEAPON_PROC_RAZE_UNLOCK
		<STRING>ACTIVATION:DYNAMIC
		<STRING>DURATION:INSTANT
		<STRING>TYPE:ADD TRIGGERABLE
		<FLOAT>CHANCE:100
	[/EFFECT]
	[EFFECT]
		<STRING>NAME:WEAPON_PROC_RAZE_UNLOCK_COUNT
		<STRING>ACTIVATION:DYNAMIC
		<STRING>DURATION:INSTANT
		<STRING>TYPE:ADD TRIGGERABLE
		<FLOAT>CHANCE:100
	[/EFFECT]
[/AFFIX]

2 files listed under ADD TRIGGERABLE. First is the main counter, 2nd is what triggers the counter, which enemy types and game events increase it.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Code: [Select]

[TRIGGERABLEACTION]
	<STRING>NAME:WEAPON_PROC_RAZE_UNLOCK
	<TRANSLATE>DESCRIPTION:|cFFEAAA15Augmented Weapon:\n     Kill 25 monsters to Upgrade (<stat:killcount_any>/25 killed)
	<STRING>GAMEEVENTTYPE:STAT
	<STRING>EVENTCREATOR:SELF
	<STRING>SUBTYPE:ADDSTAT
	<INTEGER>LEVEL:1
	<FLOAT>FLOATCONDITION:25
	<INTEGER>COOLDOWN:0
	<BOOL>MESSAGEONTRIGGER:1
	[AFFIXES]
		<STRING>AFFIX:UNIQUE_PROC_WEAPON_RAZE
		[STATWATCHER]
			<STRING>STAT:killcount_any
			<STRING>PRIMARY_TARGET_TYPE:SELF
			<STRING>SECONDARY_TARGET_TYPE:VALUE
			<STRING>WATCH_TYPE:GREATER THAN
			<FLOAT>SECONDARY_VALUE:24
		[/STATWATCHER]
	[/AFFIXES]
	[TRIGGERABLESREMOVE]
		<STRING>TRIGGERABLE:WEAPON_PROC_RAZE_UNLOCK
		<STRING>TRIGGERABLE:WEAPON_PROC_RAZE_UNLOCK_COUNT
	[/TRIGGERABLESREMOVE]
[/TRIGGERABLEACTION]

Spoiler (hover to show)

Code: [Select]

[TRIGGERABLEACTION]
	<STRING>NAME:WEAPON_PROC_RAZE_UNLOCK_COUNT
	<STRING>GAMEEVENTTYPE:CHARACTER
	<STRING>EVENTCREATOR:ENEMY
	<STRING>SUBTYPE:DIE
	<INTEGER>LEVEL:1
	<FLOAT>FLOATCONDITION:0
	<INTEGER>COOLDOWN:0
	<BOOL>TRIGGERONBEAREREVENTS:1
	<BOOL>FILTERSELF:1
	[WATCH_UNITTYPES]
		<STRING>UNITTYPE:MONSTER
	[/WATCH_UNITTYPES]
	[AFFIXES]
		<STRING>AFFIX:WEAPON_PROC_RAZE_UNLOCK_AFFIX
	[/AFFIXES]
[/TRIGGERABLEACTION]

Stat addition file referenced in above file:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Code: [Select]

[AFFIX]
	<STRING>NAME:WEAPON_PROC_RAZE_UNLOCK_AFFIX
	<INTEGER>RANK:0
	<INTEGER>MIN_SPAWN_RANGE:0
	<INTEGER>MAX_SPAWN_RANGE:999
	<FLOAT>DURATION:0
	<INTEGER>WEIGHT:0
	<INTEGER>SLOTS_OCCUPY:0
	[EFFECT]
		<STRING>NAME:killcount_any
		<STRING>ACTIVATION:DYNAMIC
		<STRING>DURATION:INSTANT
		<STRING>TYPE:ADD STAT
		<FLOAT>MIN:1
		<FLOAT>MAX:1
		<FLOAT>CHANCE:100
	[/EFFECT]
[/AFFIX]

And lastly, the affix that is supposed to be called when the counter hits its target:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Code: [Select]

[AFFIX]
	<STRING>NAME:UNIQUE_PROC_WEAPON_RAZE
	<INTEGER>RANK:0
	<INTEGER>MIN_SPAWN_RANGE:0
	<INTEGER>MAX_SPAWN_RANGE:999
	<FLOAT>DURATION:0
	<INTEGER>WEIGHT:0
	<INTEGER>SLOTS_OCCUPY:99
	[UNITTYPES]
		<STRING>UNITTYPE:UNIQUE SOCKETABLE
		<STRING>UNITTYPE:WEAPON
	[/UNITTYPES]
	[NOT_UNITTYPES]
		<STRING>UNITTYPE:WEAPON
	[/NOT_UNITTYPES]
	[EFFECT]
		<STRING>NAME:BigStrike_Proc_Edit
		<STRING>ACTIVATION:PASSIVE
		<INTEGER>LEVEL:1
		<STRING>TYPE:CAST SKILL ON MELEE STRIKE
		<STRING>DAMAGE_TYPE:ALL
		<STRING>STAT_SOURCE_TYPE:ON UPDATE CASTER
		<BOOL>SAVE:true
		<FLOAT>MIN:100
		<FLOAT>MAX:100
	[/EFFECT]
[/AFFIX]

This could either be very easy or very difficult. Based on what I've seen, I only need the 4 main files, plus an extra one that controls the proc itself.
If I missed a required file, then I had no way of knowing that, unfortunately. I compared the 4 files side-by-side with vanilla game ones and the only real difference was that bool fields use 0/1 instead of false/true, but surely that wouldn't affect it, since the game insisted on doing that anyway.

steffire3 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 03, 2018, 05:07:33 pm »

@F430 Is it possible to create a new Weapon and Armor Affix for Chance to cause Poison Explosion and Ice Explosion on Death or Hit?

Lao 2.0 Chaos created Flame and Electric Explosion on Death and other Affixes from Wayback's Mod which was added to it.

F430 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 03, 2018, 06:38:59 pm »

It most likely is, but I doubt I'm competent enough to pull it off.
For ice explosion, one could reverse engineer the ice champion's cast-on-death skill. It's the enemy you find in elemental oasis, a dungeon found in overworld for act 3.
I'm not aware of any specific enemies emitting poison clouds on death. I thought mycon brutes had that ability, but they have some sort of gas wave stomp attack instead.

steffire3 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 03, 2018, 06:46:18 pm »

Quote from: F430 on August 03, 2018, 06:38:59 pm

It most likely is, but I doubt I'm competent enough to pull it off.
For ice explosion, one could reverse engineer the ice champion's cast-on-death skill. It's the enemy you find in elemental oasis, a dungeon found in overworld for act 3.
I'm not aware of any specific enemies emitting poison clouds on death. I thought mycon brutes had that ability, but they have some sort of gas wave stomp attack instead.

Sounds good if possible.
The Poison Explosion could probably be gotten from the Trap Chest activating Poison Trap / Cloud.

F430 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 03, 2018, 07:14:06 pm »

Alternatively, reverse the "noxious" affix, which casts "CHAMPIONGAS" skill.
It won't work out of the box, since it gets called on enemy death and is set to damage everything, so it would need a copypaste and edit treatment.
On top of that, I'm not even sure what sort of damage graph it uses and whether something as simplistic can use weapon dps instead of graph offsets.
And lastly, it doesn't seem like a particularly useful addition unless you get crowded by a large melee-only mob, in which case you would just cast an AOE skill rather than rely on a gas attack proc.

Phanjam · « **Reply #27 on:** August 03, 2018, 08:23:08 pm »

Sorry kinda left u hanging on ur last question @F430

Hope to have some time this weekend for some modding :grimace:

F430 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 05, 2018, 06:11:35 pm »

Don't worry about it, triggerables can wait.
I "kind of" got the missile working, at least in the editor.
As previously stated, it's an edited version of arc beam, but it uses only the first two "laser" particles, plus smoke from pistols and "white lines" from a cannon, total of 4 emitter segments across two files [beam and pulse as "main beam", smoke and lines as "exhaust"].

Now, the issue I'm running into is that the fire effects work perfectly fine as missile particle data, but in-game the main beam never shows up, only the exhaust effects.
I've tried different combinations of layouts for active/hit/visual sources, but the result is always the same - everything works in the editor, beam is missing in-game.
Another odd thing: when all 4 emitters are in a single layout file, the main beam doesn't show up in the missile viewer, but /always/ works in the particle editor.

I'm at a loss here and have absolutely no clue as to why the beam works in one place but not the other.

Edit: I miiight be getting somewhere. Tested a few more active/hit/die/etc configurations and I managed to get BOTH main beam and exhaust effects to show up.
But... The main beam is showing up at a fixed 45 degree angle, originating from the weapon muzzle and pointing towards top left of the screen, while all emitters are perfectly level/aligned in the editor.

Phanjam · « **Reply #29 on:** August 06, 2018, 07:11:12 am »

Good u got all 4 particles to show- was gonna suggest u break them into 2 groups - muzzle flash applied as a local particle (non missile) then the streak as a missile. But anyways..

About the angled firing thing - thats weird if it shows fine in GUTS. U may have to post ur file contents for us to help out, if ok with u

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Author Topic: Skills on weapons (Read 16587 times)

F430

Re: Skills on weapons

Sch123

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F430

Re: Skills on weapons

F430

Re: Skills on weapons

Phanjam

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F430

Re: Skills on weapons

Phanjam

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F430

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steffire3

Re: Skills on weapons

F430

Re: Skills on weapons

steffire3

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F430

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Phanjam

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F430

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