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Author Topic: omfg unit grid/table view  (Read 1603 times)

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omfg unit grid/table view
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Am I an idiot/the only one who didn't know that the unit grid/table view tool to edit multiple units at once in GUTS is a fire breathing demon because it doesn't create the files in your mod folder if they dont exist? I've been spending a ton of time editing stuff and just realized they were changing the BASE GAME FILES!! WHYYY
Is there a solution to this other than copy/pasting the files you know you are planning to edit in the table view before hand?
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Re: omfg unit grid/table view
« Reply #1 on: »
Ooooh that doesn't sound good :( want the originals to paste back in?

As for a work-around, I can't think of anything else. Maybe just have a dummy folder ready to swap with the base-game folder, so you don't overwrite the originals?
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Re: omfg unit grid/table view
« Reply #2 on: »
I am a big dummy >_< haha yeah I guess I'll be keeping a backup of the base files from now on, and just remeber to copy anything into the mod folder first before using the table edit. Its so useful too, but hopefully others will find this before making the same mistake as me. Will verify the game cache on steam fix my old files without messing with the mods directory, or should I just get the base files from you?
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Re: omfg unit grid/table view
« Reply #3 on: »
Just let me know which files you need, i'll zip em up, post them somewhere and pm you th link ;)
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Re: omfg unit grid/table view
« Reply #4 on: »
Thank you so much Phanjam! I think it was mainly the CROSSBOWS, RIFLES, CANNONS, and BOWS folders in media/units/items
I was mostly trying to work on attack speeds.

I was thinking about making all weapons (for the most part) have fixed attack speeds for ease of balance/inuitive understanding of the weapon classes on the user's part. I.e. bows would be fast, crossbows slower but with knockback (sub class of arbalests slightly slower with armor piercing), rifles the very slow but hitting multiple targets and knockback, and cannons the slowest but hitting a large area, with stun and knockback. The main effect would be removing variation within the weapon classes, I guess.

I was also starting to work on a reload system for pistols, too, after reading about Jinn (
Jhin
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) from League of Legends (I've never played myself) who has to reload after firing a few shots. I was thinking it might be an interesting mechanic to allow pistols to fire six shots relatively quickly before requiring a second or two reload time, during which a little circular bar would fill up to show the progress (you could still move around and stuff). This would give them a very "skirmish" feel where you have to keep moving, fire off a barrage, and then move more, as opposed to shotgonnes which you could 'dig in'  and fire  in on a crowd up enemies (the attack speed for rifles is slow enough that the 'feel' is that you're reloading between each shot anyways, so this mechanic wouldn't apply). Idk if this would be more annoying in practice than cool, lmk what you think.

Also I was wondering if there was a way to change the display name of a weapon class? Or at shotgones hardcoded to be called that in items descriptions? I tried making a new unit type for the TL1 Rifles that just contains the CROSSBOW unit type basically, but I couldn't find a way to have the game call them something else...
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Re: omfg unit grid/table view
« Reply #5 on: »
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Re: omfg unit grid/table view
« Reply #6 on: »
You're the best!
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Re: omfg unit grid/table view
« Reply #7 on: »
Hey no problem!

About the reloading for pistols, I think that would be the kind of mod people would either really love or really hate :D Personally I like any mod that adds some more realism, so I do think I would use a mod like that.
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Re: omfg unit grid/table view
« Reply #8 on: »
1. You've got an unmodified data set in the .pak file. You can always blow away your media directory and have GUTS recreate it from the pak file.

2. I've seen references to a way of changing the color on item type descriptions called the "translate trick" but, unfortunately, I haven't seen an explanation for how it's actually done. Presumably, it allows free editing of the text that appears there. Maybe your google-fu exceeds mine.

3. I too have been wondering lately about making the itemization more intuitive. On the topic of weapons, I've been thinking about two possibilities, and I'd like to hear folks' opinions.

Possibility A(vocados): Unify item types so that every variant has the same speed and damage range (e.g., all 1H swords are the same, except for level). This is what Avocados is aiming for, if I understand correctly.  It's also pretty much the system that existed in GW1.

Possibility B: Do something like D2 -- Set out one tier of equipment spanning from levels 1-50. Then repeat the same item skins, speeds, and damage ranges in another tier from 51-80, a third tier from 81-99, and a fourth tier at 100.

In both cases, it would definitely make sense to rename the white, blue, and multisocket blue items sharing the same skins under one shared display name (and harmonize their levels, speeds, and damage ranges).

For me, the main appeal of Possibility A is that it could be used as a basis for a cosmetic item hunting meta game, much like GW1 PvE evolved into. Crafting (and possibly enchanting) could be repurposed as a way to get whatever stats you want onto any item once you've obtained the base item with the cosmetic look you want. (An example of what this sort of this sort of item hunt might look like: Your self-selected objective is to obtain a crystal sword because you think it looks cool. Perhaps a crystal sword is a rare drop from one particular boss or one particular challenging dungeon, so you replay that content until one drops. (Drop zones for desirable items are spread around, so that lots of different content becomes attractive for repeat plays.) Once you manage to find one, you can use the repurposed crafting/enchanting system to get whatever stats you want on the sword.)

Something similar would be possible with Possibility B. The main difference would be that the speed and damage range on the base item would matter, so only certain bases would be desirable. This would be functionally equivalent to D2's runeword system. On the one hand, I remember happy days spent searching for superior ethereal colossus blades and such in D2. That can be a rewarding item hunt (particularly, I think, because it combines the hunting with rewarding the player for learning the arcana of which base items are good for what). On the other hand, making the majority of base items inherently inferior means continuing to relegate a majority of the cool item models to disuse.

Thoughts, anyone?
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Re: omfg unit grid/table view
« Reply #9 on: »
Hmm I really like your line of thought, Chthon. Honestly, I hadn't really considered going all the way cosmetic because I was worried it would be too radical a shift from the core game/the hacknslash ARPG tradition. But now that I hear you say it, it really appeals in that you really get to customize your character rather than feeling obligated to equip whatever the best items stat-wise you have (aesthetics be damned!).

I've so far been trying to push it in the direction of cosmetic customization in that I've been trying to clarify and simplify the items types for consistency, and breaking them down into 8 Tiers or Ranks (currently set at level 10, 20, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90, and 100. Likewise for the armors, but only 7 ranks:10,20,35,50,65,80,100). The push towards cosmetic came in the form of trying to squish down the absurd levelling curves (its also kinda more realistic - I don't see how one sword deals 15 dmg and another deals 738. It doesn't make sense). This reduces the feeling of being gimped by choosing to wear something you like because items get outleveled/become irrelevant at a much slower pace).

As I'm a fan of things being intuitive, I still want the cooler looking items to be harder to get, and likewise, generally be stronger than the wooden sword or whatever you start with. I dislike the D2 mentality - I want the bigger sword that LOOKS like it's stronger to actually be stronger, just not so strong that you're inherently playing the game 'wrong' by using a different one you like more.

I've been using legendaries as a kinda cosmetic shortcut by including some with the same models as the cooler looking/higher tier normals/rares/uniques I think people would still want to use as endgame equipment. The legendaries have endgame stats, and you  can still hunt for the one you think looks the best as their base stats would be the same (since they're the same tier and weapon class).  Again though, I didn't want items that LOOKED mid range to be legendaries - I want things to happen in the background without someone ~having to~ think about the numbers too much: If it looks stronger, it probably is.

GW is a great comparison and I think there were many things awesome about that system. I'm just not sure I want it to make appearance completely disconnected from their stats. I guess I'm aiming for something in between that regular RPG systems. I actually just reread your post and to clarify I'm standardizing them, but not completely negating level. All swords will have the same attack speed and range, but the damage (as of now) is still increasing with their tier. Likewise all crossbows have the same attack speed, knockback, and range. So basically item variation is between item type, and not between items, so you don't have to number crunch whether the faster sword with lower total dps is still a better choice because of procs. Deciding on which 'class' of weapon to use sounds like much less of a headache than that same decision for EVERY item that drops.

With the naming -  I haven't been sure yet. In the mean time, I've been going halfway by giving a base name to each item appearance, and the 'variants' just have a small change. For example, there's the Longbow, and the variants would be Old Longbow, Yew Longbow, and Heartwood Longbow, for example. It might end up being too wordy once the affixes are thrown on top tho lol so I might go with your idea and just make them all "longbow".

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Re: omfg unit grid/table view
« Reply #10 on: »
Oooh btw Chthon I couldn't find anything with google unfortunately either but I played around a bit with the translation thing and its no so bad! You can just create a new language and have a translation file ONLY change a select few things - like in this case - 'shotgonne' to 'rifle'. I'll attach the folders here if you want to take a look. I made a new 'language' called 'modded', that if in the game language setting you change it to 'MODDED' from english or whatever it will change 'shotgonnes' to 'rifles' and 'unique' to 'legendary'. I also tried to change 'legendary' to 'mythical' but I have had no luck so far - the only reference to 'legendary' in the other translation files seem to be related to the 'legendary' in the fame ranks, not that of item types :/. I also tried making another language with the same stuff but with the name 'English' and setting the slot to 1 in hopes that it would default to the modded 'translation' but no luck. Other than those things it seems fairly functional though.

You'd just drop the "TRANSLATIONS' folder below into a mod's MEDIA folder and pack it up :)
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Re: omfg unit grid/table view
« Reply #11 on: »
Hey that sounds really cool! Thanks Avocados ;) I might try seeing if I can get it to work inside RnF's TL1 Rifles mod this weekend  :o
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