Modding => Modding Questions => Topic started by: F430 on July 19, 2018, 03:38:37 am
Title: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on July 19, 2018, 03:38:37 am
Greetings all.
I got a question which hopefully can be answered here. As a test, I'm trying to make a unique weapon which can proc on strike. Normally, this would be a non-issue as there are plenty of stock procs in the game, but the proc I'm trying to make would be using a vanilla player skill. The problem is that skills are separated into core/parent which controls everything, as well as child skills which can include abilities that are added as more points are invested in the skill. If this is possible at all, would it require a chain of affixes and triggerables? Or would a single affix with correct skill name suffice? I tried this sort of thing before and the usual result was "20% chance to cast ??? on strike" when testing in-game.
I have some additional questions, but I'll save them for later, as I don't want to make a massive wall with all of my novice woes.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on July 19, 2018, 02:58:59 pm
Im having trouble figuring out what you want help with :D
is "+x% chance to cast" NOT what u wanted? cos that sounds like u got it working. What did u want instead?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on July 19, 2018, 05:23:52 pm
Hi Phanjam. "x% to cast y" would be the desired effect, but the problem I'm having is that, instead of having a player skill proc from a weapon strike, nothing happens, and I get 3 question marks instead of the skill name that should proc. This is probably due to an incorrect skill name, but another issue is that skill folders have tonnes of files in them and picking the correct one is trial and error, moreso if I wanted to use a particular level of the skill, eg level 10 of Berserker's Raze skill, rather than just the barebones skill with 1 point in it.
Edit: in a stroke of genius, I reckon I managed to get it to work, somehow. Except a completely unexpected problem surfaced - neither the weapon, nor the skill it calls on strike, deal any damage whatsoever.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on July 20, 2018, 02:04:05 am
I made something like this only once so far.
The item (a greathammer in my case) has an AFFIX baked-in to its DAT like this...
As you can see, the chance to cast is set at 100%. The skill it casts is that HAMMERFALLEMBER skill (the <STRING>NAME: inside the [EFFECT] block. kinda confusing i know, i proly shoulda named the skill differently from the affix :P )
The skill itself is a rehash of an old skill developed for another mod, but it can be anything you want really ;)
And i get this...
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on July 20, 2018, 03:00:25 am
And this is what I've done as far as the affix code itself goes:
[AFFIX] <STRING>NAME:UNIQUE_PROC_WEAPON_RAZE <INTEGER>RANK:0 <INTEGER>MIN_SPAWN_RANGE:0 <INTEGER>MAX_SPAWN_RANGE:999 <FLOAT>DURATION:0 <INTEGER>WEIGHT:0 <INTEGER>SLOTS_OCCUPY:0 [UNITTYPES] <STRING>UNITTYPE:UNIQUE SOCKETABLE <STRING>UNITTYPE:WEAPON [/UNITTYPES] [NOT_UNITTYPES] <STRING>UNITTYPE:WEAPON [/NOT_UNITTYPES] [EFFECT] <STRING>NAME:BigStrike <STRING>ACTIVATION:PASSIVE <INTEGER>LEVEL:15 <STRING>TYPE:CAST SKILL ON MELEE STRIKE <STRING>DAMAGE_TYPE:PHYSICAL <BOOL>SAVE:true <FLOAT>MIN:100 <FLOAT>MAX:100 [/EFFECT] [/AFFIX] The test weapon I made has "100% chance to cast Raze on strike", which is what I was after from the start, but the skill itself itself does not do any damage. More importantly, as stated before, the weapon itself doesn't do ANY damage either, and I have no idea why.
Here's the weapon code, if it's of any relevance:
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on July 20, 2018, 06:21:27 am
First about the weapon itself having no damage, to eliminate possible glitches in coding, i recommend u use a straight copy of an existing weapon .DAT with no edits at all except for - change NAME: - change GUID and - add your skill affix
If that works out u can always edit from there but it should be easier to trace back any problems
Next about the skill doing no damage - check that the skill DAT is able to find all the other files it needs to work, like any LAYOUT and damage AFFIX files. Calling layouts is file-path-specific so ur directory structure has to match (or the other way around)
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on July 20, 2018, 08:21:53 am
I've tried quite a few things that you listed and then some, namely barebones item cloning, affix checking, making sure .dat/.layout files are in correct folders and whatnot, even made sure all project directories are uppercase so some data editors won't list the same thing more than once.
And yet, no damage from both the weapon and skill.
The orange werewolf mesh appears every time I attack an enemy so I'm just about certain the layouts are intact and refer to correct files. Also, none of the existing mods I have change that particular player skill in any way. I'm still very much a novice in this, but the only thing I can think is making the entire skill, or at least a specific level, into a standalone shared skill or something along the lines.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Epoch on July 20, 2018, 11:15:29 am
I think the problem may have to do with what activation type the skill is set to.
Can you show the code to the skill you are using?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on July 20, 2018, 12:00:57 pm
The skill in question is a vanilla Berserker skill [MEDIA\SKILLS\BERSERKER\BIGSTRIKE] and it's not modified in any way, besides I'm not sure SMF would like 11KB of text in a single post. But with activation types, I'm lead to believe that procs are always set to passive, as they can occur based on chance percentage.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Epoch on July 20, 2018, 01:56:37 pm
Alright, so I tested several possibilities and discovered the answer is extremely simple.
From what I can tell, weapons that proc skills cannot utilize anything that falls within:
[EVENT_TRIGGER] [/EVENT_TRIGGER] So what I did was follow PJ's instructions for the weapon & affix, then made a copy of the BigStrike skill, renamed it BigStrike2, and changed the GUID. I then changed the EVENT_TRIGGER to EVENT_START and everything works properly. Procced skills can still utilize the EVENT_UNITHIT, so the buff this skill applies still works.
Use the affix to set what level of the skill you want to proc through:
Edit: Oh and @F430 , ur right to point out its an existing vanilla skill so a repost is not necessary. But generally speaking, in the interest of advancing modding knowledge, 11kb of text is well well worth it! :D
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on July 21, 2018, 04:38:14 am
Thanks for your help, lads. I won't be able to test this properly until later today, but based on my noobish understanding of what Epoch said, what is it exactly that I should do? Should I rename EVENT_TRIGGER brackets to EVENT_START, then remove original EVENT_START? Or should I merge them both and remove whatever is left within EVENT_TRIGGER, brackets themselves included? If I can slap the entries from both within a single bracket, then that's fair enough, but I'm not certain what to do with .layout references, since both _START and _TRIGGER have those, and I have no idea whether calling both in a single entry would cause issues.
Apologies for being dense, but I really want to get this right, as I'm very much enjoying modding TL2.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Epoch on July 21, 2018, 08:25:34 am
Leave the existing EVENT_START as is. Just change the EVENT_TRIGGER into a 2nd EVENT_START bracket. If I remember correctly, you can only have 1 layout per event bracket.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on July 21, 2018, 11:34:45 am
Alright, you two can rest easy now. I figured it out and the skill works perfectly. I cut the whole thing down to a single [LEVEL] entry and removed some unneeded strings like mana cost, tier descriptions and whatnot.
I would like to once again thank you both very much for assisting me in this.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on July 21, 2018, 06:35:31 pm
Glad to hear that F430! Just give a shout if u feel u need help with something ;)
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on July 22, 2018, 06:49:10 am
Help with something? Funny you should ask...
A week or so ago I've been pondering how to go about making a rather unusual weapon. Long story short, it would be a shotgun, except not, for it would only rely on shotgun mesh and animation data and that would be it.
Now, for some background. There is an old game called Red Faction that has a rather powerful weapon called the Rail Driver. It uses magnetic induction to propel metal rods to extreme speeds, allowing them to pierce multiple enemies and walls. The idea was/is to make a weapon like that and have it re-use a legendary shotgun mesh/anim set.
Here's where the problems start, and there migth be a lot of them. Shotguns have global particle system which cannot be changed just for one item, meaning I would need to create a new unittype that mostly copies rifle hierarchy. Another issue would be making it work just like the railgun, namely having specific strike/approach range, but the "projectile" would be a beam that can pierce any enemies it hits, including those off-screen. The only way I can imagine this to work is by using a missile, but missiles are physical entities rather that particle emitters with collision shapes. I might be wrong but a possible fallback would be to use INVISIBLEFASTPIERCING as base and add actual particle system to it. Alternatively, and again this is just guesswork, would be to copy arc beam skill, extend the range, turn it into a 100% chance proc, hide the affix and override duration and cooldown.
Condensed version of the above: how can I make a shotgun-like weapon that doesn't behave like one, fires from a specific distance, but can hit enemies beyond its effective range?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Sch123 on July 22, 2018, 08:55:46 am
If you are interested in weapons that can use skill to attack you can see this Mod: UNITITEM (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=149600556&searchtext=). In this mod wand can attack with the skill, maybe you can put it on the weapon you want to give skill. :)
Quote
Now, for some background. There is an old game called Red Faction that has a rather powerful weapon called the Rail Driver. It uses magnetic induction to propel metal rods to extreme speeds, allowing them to pierce multiple enemies and walls. The idea was/is to make a weapon like that and have it re-use a legendary shotgun mesh/anim set.
Is like a Rail Cannon Weapon, very interesting. :o
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on July 22, 2018, 12:10:47 pm
That's only partially it. Instead of full skills, I'm going to try going for a less flashy beam based on embermage's arc beam. This is mainly due to several issues that can arise if the skill was used as a proc on the weapon, namely targeting range being bound to beam length, or at least that's what I gathered.
Anywho, I'm hoping it won't take long, since I've never used the particle before creator but I'm slowly getting used to it. With that said, is there any way to force the particles to stop looping by adding a timeline logic entry to each particle segment? Or am I better off opening an existing fire effect, eg from a cannon/pistol/whichever, and modifying textures, render types, length, yadda yadda?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on July 27, 2018, 05:18:31 pm
I'm going to double-post now and apologise later.
Firstly, no progress to report on, mainly due to recent heatwave turning my room into a greenhouse, which would get even worse if I was running games and whatnot.
Going back to the custom particle system thing, I got quite a few questions: Even if I were to get it right in the end, how can I use it on a weapon if all/most weapons have pre-determined globals? Does at least one of the entries need "PIERCING:true" bool or is that determined by "Damage Shape" particle logic info? Is there something along the lines of "Render Scale Over Time", a logic controller that could change the scale [width/height] of the emitter along its lifespan? Can I use a custom INT64 GUID as long as no other entry has the same one and does it always have to be 19 digits? Which files determine .layout usage for particles? This question comes from weapons like crossbows seemingly not having base .layout files, or at least not referencing any. In order to use any new/custom sounds, can I simply create a new soundbank and add entries to it, or would there be more to it?
That's all I can think of for now. I know this is a LOT, but I would definitely appreciate if someone could shed some light on at least a couple of those.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on July 28, 2018, 06:25:30 am
Hey F430
Quote from: F430
Even if I were to get it right in the end, how can I use it on a weapon if all/most weapons have pre-determined globals?
I tried looking for how the game attaches muzzle flashes during a firing animation (the particles themselves are in MEDIA\PARTICLES\WEAPONS, RIFLEMUZZLEFLASH.LAYOUT and PISTOLMUZZLEFLASH.LAYOUT) but i didnt see it right away. I think the answer to your question is tied to how the game attaches those...
Quote from: F430
Does at least one of the entries need "PIERCING:true" bool or is that determined by "Damage Shape" particle logic info?
PIERCING has to do specifically with MISSILE particles and governs whether or not they will continue to travel thru things. If you end up using a MISSILE as the particle for your railgun then yeah this could be a lot of fun :D The damage shape is literally a shape within which some effect/s (usually damage of some kind) will impart themselves.
Quote from: F430
Is there something along the lines of "Render Scale Over Time", a logic controller that could change the scale [width/height] of the emitter along its lifespan?
For the Emmitter itself I usually just play aound with the settings under DIMENSIONS and EMMISSION. Like for scaling a particle I usually use the SCALEONLAUNCH setting under DIMENSONS.
(https://i.imgur.com/7OAvr42.png)
Quote from: F430
Can I use a custom INT64 GUID as long as no other entry has the same one and does it always have to be 19 digits?
Yes you can use any random string of numerals and you can start it all off with a "-" sign too. And yes it does have tp be 19 digits.
Quote from: F430
Which files determine .layout usage for particles? This question comes from weapons like crossbows seemingly not having base .layout files, or at least not referencing any.
If the Xbows are just referencing each other, then one of them is acting as the "base". For the first part of this question, could you expound please?
Quote from: F430
In order to use any new/custom sounds, can I simply create a new soundbank and add entries to it, or would there be more to it?
The answer is yes, but if you run into any trouble we can look at the specifics of your usage f the sound
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on July 28, 2018, 08:24:49 am
Thanks for all the info Phanjam.
So, I've been deliberating between two options:
Make a new missile which would reuse parts of embermage's arc beam skill and use it on an existing weapon, eg shotgun.
---OR---
Make a completely new weapon type, use the new firing particle system for it and go from there.
I'm heavily leaning towards first option, since I can change item base to "base_<name>_noskill.dat" [missiles will not work unless this base is used] but I'm uncertain about a couple things: Can missiles override default damage shapes, and can they use custom ones? Will using a missile force the game to ignore default unit type particles and defer to any and all particles associated with said missile? Besides a few dev test entries, most missiles are visible due to their speed, but with my fake rail driver, there is no real "speed" to speak of. It would have to be the same as a beam, and normally those are around 999 units/second or other high numbers. Despite using the same extension, .layout files are split into two categories - code/logic and emitter data. If I were to use a missile, which editor section should I use? I'm asking this because I came across several instances where the editor said "invalid layout file type for this view" or something along the lines.
And for your request to expand on the crossbow example. All units have bases, base hierarchies [any -> item -> takeable -> pistol] and base layouts located in MEDIA/SKILLS/WEAPONS. Unless I'm blind, crossbows don't have any files/entries in the above directory, which leads me to believe that some things might be hardcoded, since there must be a way for the game to know that crossbows, like all equipment, will still have to use some firing particles. As a side note, only collars, studs and polearms exist in UNITTYPES folders. Nothing for cannons, pistols, rifles, etc. I'm sure there is a reason for it, but I can't really figure it out.
And there it is, another wall of text for anyone willing to plough through it...
Edit: currently messing about with triggerables to turn the previously discussed Raze proc into a weapon augmentation. The game crashes every time the triggerables are about to be removed and replaced with said proc. I've checked spelling, file references/names, extensions, character encoding and everything else I could think of and it still doesn't work.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on July 29, 2018, 12:01:32 am
Hey F430! First I found (well, new to me - you may already know this :P ) how MISSILEs are attached to weapon items. It's via a line in the item's unit .DAT that goes
<STRING>MISSILE:(name_of_missile)
:D
Still haven't seen how MUZZLEFLASH or BOWARROW layouts are attached tho :( So i've not yet helped with the Crossbow question...
Quote from: F430
Can missiles override default damage shapes, and can they use custom ones?
MISSILEs do not need to use damage shapes generally. Any damage AFFIXes you assign it in the skill are applied directly to the unit hit by the MISSILE. You can however add damage shapes via other blocks in the skill, usually EVENTMISSILEHIT(COLLIDE?) and EVENTMISSILEDIE
Quote from: F430
Will using a missile force the game to ignore default unit type particles and defer to any and all particles associated with said missile?
No, u may have noticed if you don't specify a "hit" or "die" particle for your MISSILE, it will play the standard hit particle of the unit that was hit. Also, using other EVENTMISSILE... layouts as described above, you can have any other non-missile particles play through those.
Quote from: F430
Besides a few dev test entries, most missiles are visible due to their speed, but with my fake rail driver, there is no real "speed" to speak of. It would have to be the same as a beam, and normally those are around 999 units/second or other high numbers.
That matter did cross my mind as well. You probably dont want a missile for a railgun skill, but an Emmitter instead. If you can, take apart the Pull skill of the Destroyer in TL1CP. That pull skill attaches particles that look like chains for like a second. Maybe this method at shorter duration could work for a railgun particle?
Quote from: F430
Despite using the same extension, .layout files are split into two categories - code/logic and emitter data. If I were to use a missile, which editor section should I use? I'm asking this because I came across several instances where the editor said "invalid layout file type for this view" or something along the lines.
Yes its confusing that there are layout layouts then there are particle layouts :P . Particle layouts start with the header "Particle Creator" (or something like that) and they open only in the GUTS Particles tab. All other layout files, including MISSILE layout files, only open n the Layouts tab.
Quote from: F430
currently messing about with triggerables to turn the previously discussed Raze proc into a weapon augmentation. The game crashes every time the triggerables are about to be removed and replaced with said proc. I've checked spelling, file references/names, extensions, character encoding and everything else I could think of and it still doesn't work.
blocks in a reply here. I can try help with that directly...
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on July 29, 2018, 08:01:41 am
Thanks again, Phanjam, I really appreciate your help with all this. The more I'm pondering this, the more I think missiles might be a good idea after all. Especially since they have bools like COLLIDES_WITH_OBJECTS and COLLIDES_WITH_WORLD, meaning they can noclip through everything, which is the whole idea. Now, if only I could find an entry that disables line of sight checks, like most skills allow you to, that would make it perfect. I'll think about it some more later. One thing I recall from "studying" the missile layouts/options yesterday, is that you should be able to have a very fast missile that's invisible and uses an existing emitter layout data under "FIRE" which, to my understandng, describes how the missile looks while active. Sadly, I can't merge different layout types for missiles AND emitters, like you said already, with GUTS splitting them into different sections. Best I can do is reference FIRE layout once I complete the edits and hope for the best.
Now, for the more unexpected thing, the triggerable crash. I've had the game for over 5 years and this is genuinely the first time it started crashing. Blocks of code are as follows:
Main affix applied to the item itself:
2 files listed under ADD TRIGGERABLE. First is the main counter, 2nd is what triggers the counter, which enemy types and game events increase it.
Stat addition file referenced in above file:
And lastly, the affix that is supposed to be called when the counter hits its target:
This could either be very easy or very difficult. Based on what I've seen, I only need the 4 main files, plus an extra one that controls the proc itself. If I missed a required file, then I had no way of knowing that, unfortunately. I compared the 4 files side-by-side with vanilla game ones and the only real difference was that bool fields use 0/1 instead of false/true, but surely that wouldn't affect it, since the game insisted on doing that anyway.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on August 03, 2018, 05:07:33 pm
@F430 Is it possible to create a new Weapon and Armor Affix for Chance to cause Poison Explosion and Ice Explosion on Death or Hit?
Lao 2.0 Chaos created Flame and Electric Explosion on Death and other Affixes from Wayback's Mod which was added to it.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 03, 2018, 06:38:59 pm
It most likely is, but I doubt I'm competent enough to pull it off. For ice explosion, one could reverse engineer the ice champion's cast-on-death skill. It's the enemy you find in elemental oasis, a dungeon found in overworld for act 3. I'm not aware of any specific enemies emitting poison clouds on death. I thought mycon brutes had that ability, but they have some sort of gas wave stomp attack instead.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on August 03, 2018, 06:46:18 pm
It most likely is, but I doubt I'm competent enough to pull it off. For ice explosion, one could reverse engineer the ice champion's cast-on-death skill. It's the enemy you find in elemental oasis, a dungeon found in overworld for act 3. I'm not aware of any specific enemies emitting poison clouds on death. I thought mycon brutes had that ability, but they have some sort of gas wave stomp attack instead.
Sounds good if possible. The Poison Explosion could probably be gotten from the Trap Chest activating Poison Trap / Cloud.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 03, 2018, 07:14:06 pm
Alternatively, reverse the "noxious" affix, which casts "CHAMPIONGAS" skill. It won't work out of the box, since it gets called on enemy death and is set to damage everything, so it would need a copypaste and edit treatment. On top of that, I'm not even sure what sort of damage graph it uses and whether something as simplistic can use weapon dps instead of graph offsets. And lastly, it doesn't seem like a particularly useful addition unless you get crowded by a large melee-only mob, in which case you would just cast an AOE skill rather than rely on a gas attack proc.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on August 03, 2018, 08:23:08 pm
Sorry kinda left u hanging on ur last question @F430 :(
Hope to have some time this weekend for some modding :grimace:
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 05, 2018, 06:11:35 pm
Don't worry about it, triggerables can wait. I "kind of" got the missile working, at least in the editor. As previously stated, it's an edited version of arc beam, but it uses only the first two "laser" particles, plus smoke from pistols and "white lines" from a cannon, total of 4 emitter segments across two files [beam and pulse as "main beam", smoke and lines as "exhaust"].
Now, the issue I'm running into is that the fire effects work perfectly fine as missile particle data, but in-game the main beam never shows up, only the exhaust effects. I've tried different combinations of layouts for active/hit/visual sources, but the result is always the same - everything works in the editor, beam is missing in-game. Another odd thing: when all 4 emitters are in a single layout file, the main beam doesn't show up in the missile viewer, but /always/ works in the particle editor.
I'm at a loss here and have absolutely no clue as to why the beam works in one place but not the other.
Edit: I miiight be getting somewhere. Tested a few more active/hit/die/etc configurations and I managed to get BOTH main beam and exhaust effects to show up. But... The main beam is showing up at a fixed 45 degree angle, originating from the weapon muzzle and pointing towards top left of the screen, while all emitters are perfectly level/aligned in the editor.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on August 06, 2018, 07:11:12 am
Good u got all 4 particles to show- was gonna suggest u break them into 2 groups - muzzle flash applied as a local particle (non missile) then the streak as a missile. But anyways..
About the angled firing thing - thats weird if it shows fine in GUTS. U may have to post ur file contents for us to help out, if ok with u
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 06, 2018, 02:18:20 pm
Of course. To be fair, this isn't the first time something works or shows up in GUTS but not in-game, or vice versa, and definitely not just for me, but anyway.
Here are the files.
Main beam, which is the thing that sort-of works. Now, my guess as to why there are 2 different COUNT entries is because 2 layouts were merged into one, then saved as that one file. Probably anyway.
This is the exhaust effect. Again, two COUNT entries because of layout merging. It doesn't seem to be causing issues as such, but this is the first time I'm dealing with this so not 100% sure. At this point, I'm just glad it shows up at all, even if slightly broken :\
That's it for the files from MEDIA/PARTICLES/WEAPONS, now the missile file itself.
And that's all. I got work later so only got enough time to post all this but, off the top of my head, the few things which could be causing breakages might be beam emitter orientation/geometry rotation/texture animation, or missile's USE OWNER TARGET set to false, but that didn't stop it from working. Logically, the weapon/missile works, enemies get damaged by it from very long range and pressing attack with "hold position" can kill them through world geometry, as intended.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 17, 2018, 05:14:31 am
Double post, oops...
Ok, so. The update is out for a few days now, claw with Raze proc works flawlessly, Rail Driver is probably the pinnacle of my modding abilities and other things were an exercise in affixes.
With that in mind, I wanted to ask for some advice/suggestions. Claw is Berserker-inspired, and I had some more ideas regarding vanilla class-themed uniques. One of them is a greathammer that procs emberquake and....that's it.
I have no idea which weapons and skill-based procs to use for Outlander and Embermage. Summons are out of the question, since that's most likely too complex to be contained in a proc, plus it could get out of hand if more than one brute/avatar/sledgebot start roaming the field. A random thought was to maybe give wands some much needed attention. They're largely neglected, especially if a skill relies on weapon DPS rather than a damage graph.
But that's just brainstorming out loud. I'd like to hear some ideas, as long as they're not overly elaborate and remain on basic implementation level.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Sch123 on August 17, 2018, 07:22:24 am
Hi @F430, I have some ideas that might be used. :D
Have you tried this mod Ruination (http://torchmodders.com/forums/mod-showcase/ruination/msg8342/#msg8342). This mod is a compilation of weapons which I think is very unique. There are 4 different weapons, Minigun (v.9), Flamethrower, Rifle & Light Saber. And I think the four weapons can still be developed and need to be improved a little further.
Minigun [Canon]
In the latest Minigun Weapon (v.10) mod (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=167126868&searchtext=minigun), the weapon can automatically cool down, but unfortunately he eliminates stop firing when the weapon is hot and can cool itself when not firing weapons. That way I thought maybe it would be better to remove spell coolant because its function was not needed anymore.
Flamethrower [Canon]
I feel the animation from the flame burst is too big and less smooth when the fire spurts need to be refined. I also hope that this weapon can be treated the same as the Minigun, when the heat of this weapon stops firing and can cool itself when not firing weapons.
Rifle / Sniper [Shotguns]
In this weapon, in my opinion what still needs to be fixed is the accuracy. Because when shooting sometimes the bullet doesn't hit the enemy even though it's already at a shooting distance. Maybe you can add a penetrating effect, to feel like a real sniper.
Light Saber [1H Sword]
It might be possible to add a penetrating effect, to feel like a sniper Still lacking light saber weapons for 2h sword. And the effect reflects a projectile attack.
Other ideas:
Laser Gun & Laser Rifle [Pistol] [Shotguns]
More or less the same as the Lightsaber theme but this is on the Pistol & Shotguns. You can see this weapon in Noddyngineering !! (v.830) (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=138331402&searchtext=Noddyngineering+%21%21+%28v.830%29) Mod.
Mortar [Canon]
Unlike Canon, which shoots like a shotgun, mortar shoots with one ball bullet and when it hits the ground / enemy it will explode and cause it to burn around.
Assault Rifle [Shotguns]
The idea is more or less the same as the Minigun, only this is applied to the shotguns and is made so that this weapon fires there in the gap (pause for a moment) as a substitute for weapons that can heat up.
Bow Gun [Pistol]
X-bow weapon that can be used as a gun. Examples are in THE SCOUT (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=179481064&searchtext=)Mod. Maybe it can be added to the Stun effect, so that it becomes Stun-gun.
Wind Blade [1H & 2H Sword, Axe, Claw]
Use the power charge skill that is in the engineer class who can make weapons firing energy wave attacks. This will be good for melee weapons like: 1H & 2H Sword, Axe, Claw.
Upgrade Bow & X-Bow [Bow & X-Bow]
Give splash / burst damage to Bow & X-Bow. And can be developed again by making Bleed enemies when hit by a critical attack. or you can add "Deep Penetration & Maiming Blow" skills like those in the Mongol Archer Class (FEP+).
Fist Blast [Claw]
When hitting an opponent with critical hit, it will trigger the skill to blast the opponent. Like hitting with Black powder, the enemy will be hit back and will suffer from burning.
Grenadier [Throwing Weapon]
There are already weapons that can be thrown like throwing swords, hammers, & axes. But no one has thrown a Bomb. This weapon is like a bomb that will explode and when the critical hit the effect will be more stronger, besides exploding it will burn the surroundings.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on August 17, 2018, 12:24:25 pm
How about a "Sub Auto Pistol"? Absolute fastest ranged weapon yet only gets Melee range? A Melee weapon that benefits from Ranged Damage.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 17, 2018, 12:29:25 pm
@Sch123 I'd like to entertain the thought of making weapons that require some advanced scripts like stat watchers, complex particles, damage shapes et al. Sadly, my expertise will not allow me to, especially for the likes of minigun, flamethrower and lightsaber. The latter moreso since it would require a custom model, and I have no clue how to use 3dsmax besides a few tutorials I've done over a decade ago.
As for the rifle, Rail Driver mostly does what you want, and beyond. It fires piercing "projectiles" that can go through enemies, shields, armour and even world geometry. The weapon accuracy issue seems to be persistent in vanilla as well as modded games, since, in my view, it doesn't connect unless the enemy hitboxes are aligned in a specific way, which I doubt is something I can fix, nor would want to, since the base weapon I made is already arguably overpowered, considering it shoots through everything and, with "force attack", doesn't require line of sight at all.
Moving on. Laser weapons are feasible, but would most likely require making new unit types so they can utilise custom firing particles and damage shapes. Without that, those seem to be more or less hardcoded and I never had any luck finding which files are referenced for firing sequences and so on.
There's already a mortar-esque projectile [under "missiles"] in the stock game that could be reused for what you want, but the technicalities behind it don't make it all that useful, since it has both maximum and minimum strike range, thus eliminating a lot of applications for it.
If you want an assault rifle that fires in bursts, I wouldn't have a clue where to start. If you want something that's faster than a shotgun but with less damage, anyone can do it in GUTS by dropping damage graph offset and increasing weapon speed.
Stun gun, while amusing at first, could be either gamebreaking or completely useless. Useless against bosses because they got stun resistance, gamebreaking on standard mobs and even champions, since you can just stunlock everything to death, especially if it deals damage on top of being able to stun enemies.
For wind blade, same case as with burst assault rifles - I wouldn't even know how to start this sort of thing.
Crossbow splash damage can be done via missiles. Bleed or whatever other debuff can be/might be done with affixes with unitthemes that activate via transfer. I think...
Fist blast, again, stat watchers and specific game events. Way above my league. Same for thrown weapons.
Now, being a party pooper aside, what I was initially asking for was some suggestion on vanilla player class skills to dumb down into a single-level skill which I could then use as a proc. Example: a greathammer, which is a weapon suitable for an engineer, using emberquake, which is an engineer skill. Bottom line is, a class-themed weapon that doesn't actually require you to be that class to use it.
@steffire3 unless I got it wrong, a pistol cannot be both a pistol and a melee weapon without some funky unittype/item hierarchy editing. If you meant a pistol that's got microscopic range but still works like one and gets ranged bonuses, then that should only be a matter of shrinking strike/approach range to those of a claw/sword.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on August 17, 2018, 12:34:59 pm
Yes it's still a ranged weapon that allows a ranger to fight within Melee Range without requiring Melee Damage.
@Phanjam did attempt Dual Wielded Shield Weapons and that was interesting.
@RnF months ago was also trying to create a thrown Fire Ball from the hand and also a telepathic fire pillar which would strike one foe regardless of obstacles since it came from the air above.
And of course I am still interested in a Flame Thrower that can shoot the other 3 elements.
Also imagine a Pistol that shot Elemental Gust like a Wand?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 17, 2018, 01:07:10 pm
@steffire3 I get it now. But surely there has to be some offset to this sort of mechanic. Higher DPS? Fire rate? Powerful affixes? Also, I just got a random idea for another weapon: revolver that could [potentially] work as the Tornado from MGS5, ricocheting off surfaces to strike enemies. Again, it would be a matter of using missiles instead of base firing effects, but I'm not sure whether you can hit an enemy, then have the missile strike another, then another, and so on until it reaches max ricochet count and disappears. Another thing: if it can't ricochet off enemies and bounces off walls instead - what if it hits a slope or any uneven surface? Does it go up? Or does it ignore the angle and continue travelling along the ground?
@Phanjam or anyone else who might know: whilst working on the railgun, I came across something I had to rely on guesswork to figure out. Stun affix has an entry called IGNORE_RESISTANCE. If that was a bool, then yeah, fair game. But it's a float, and having scanned every single stun affix, there are 3 possible values: -1, 0 and 1. Any idea as to how those values change the affix itself?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on August 18, 2018, 12:08:54 am
@F430 for ricocheting bullets they ricochet of world but not mobs. If theyre piercing they can go thru the mobs and keep ricocheting until they hit their distance setting or their # of ricochets setting.
About the ignore resistance, pretty sure 0 is false, 1 is true. But dont know what -1 will do :P
Lastly about class-themed weap procs from their vanilla skills, i suggest u try someof berserkers wolf skills. Yes they are summons but they can proc from on_strike AND your skill level can handle it easily (despite your assertions to the contrary). Will be happy to guide ;)
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 18, 2018, 04:29:06 am
@Phanjam maybe -1 just means that the field is commented out? Kinda? If memory serves, I've seen hail stones use -1, some outlander skills use 1 and few engineer debuffs[?] use 0. I probably got it wrong but no matter.
As for the skill, not really a berserker player, but I'm all ears as far as ideas go, especially since you seem confident tha I can pull it off, unlike Sch123's suggestions, which are simply waaay above anything that I can reasonably pull off.
Lastly, if the above doesn't fly, I can jump ship and do the ricochet revolver based on steff's input, since I personally like that idea. Also because pistols are really underpowered late-game.
Edit: I had another look at that ruination weapon pack. Any idea how Viz got a standard attack to ignore shields? I always thought that it's impossible without having to destroy the shield, which still requires a second shot to kill whoever was using it.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on August 18, 2018, 07:18:32 pm
@F430 : I really like the MGS Tornado Pistol Idea.
Also an Auto Pistol is extremely useful in shooter games and likewise in TL2 in fact the name itself implies that it has near Maximum Attack Speed. That kind of Speed equals a great increase in Skill DPS and Affix Procs for all sources that can interact with the Weapon.
It's the ultimate speedy Gun that trades all it's range for the ability to unload a hail of bullets and effects at point blank range. It's different from the Claw since it's designed to allow Rangers to use something that even Berserkers don't have access to which is Ranged Close Combat Max Speed Weapons.
It would open the Outlander to an entire new realm of Melee possibilities if the Warfare and Sigil Skills are used with it. And it's still classed as a Pistol by the game.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 19, 2018, 03:51:32 am
@steffire3 sounds good and it's definitely do-able, but I'm pondering things like animations. When developing the railgun, I found out that animations are tied to weapon speed, so it's not a standard case of aim -> fire -> put down -> wait for timer -> repeat. The whole aim/fire/put down animation timeline is scaled to match the attack speed.
Now, I'm not 100% sure how fast you can go without things looking broken. I reckon 0.48s is the minimum the game will let you use unless you attach skills that override animations. Feasible, but it's more legwork to more or less achieve the same thing.
On top of that, some weapons seem to have hardcoded attack speed intervals, eg. you can't have a claw that has 0.68 attack speed and the game will make it use either 0.60 or 0.72 and I have no idea how to change it, and I definitely tried. The claw from v.86 update was balance-tested by increasing attack delay, but it was firmly stuck at 0.60s. Perhaps some properties cannot be changed after all, or it's just an engine limitation.
Anyway, I got a rough idea on how to do your close quarters pistol, I would just need you to give me some stats, like item level, speed, damage modifiers, elemental distribution and the likes, same for affixes.
Oh, and I've only just realised. A simple attack speed affix can override weapon speed, but anything below 0.48s might look odd, but hopefully it should work.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on August 19, 2018, 04:42:09 pm
That's that mean that Great Weapons (Two Handed) are hard coded to not attack below a base of 0.80 seconds discounting Attack Speed Affixes? Just curious.
For the Auto Pistol below :
0.48 or 0.60 might be the fastest possible base speed so that would be my choice depending on which is feasible.
level 15, type Ice, DPS 100, 1% Chance : Glacial Strike, Scalding Geyser, Immobile 1s. 4% Fumble Chance Reduced. level 30, type Electric, DPS 200, 2% Chance : Thunder, Lightning, Stun 1s. 2 Mana Stolen on hit. level 45, type Poison, DPS 300, 3% Chance : Acid Rain, Poison Cloud, Blindness 1s. -20 Armor on hit 5s. level 60, type Physical, DPS 400, 4% Chance : Eviscerate, Tiamat Wrath, Silence 1s. 4% Fumble Penalty Reduced. level 75, type Fire, DPS 500, 5% Chance : Meteor, Fire Rain, Break Shields. 20 Health Stolen on hit.
level 96, type Ice, DPS 600, 6% Chance : Glacial Strike, Scalding Geyser, Immobile 1s. 8% Fumble Chance Reduced. level 97, type Electric, DPS 700, 7% Chance : Thunder, Lightning, Stun 1s. 4 Mana Stolen on hit. level 98, type Poison, DPS 800, 8% Chance : Acid Rain, Poison Cloud, Blindness 1s. -40 Armor on hit 5s.
RED LEGENDARY BELOW:
level 99, type Physical, DPS 900, 9% Chance : Eviscerate, Tiamat Wrath, Silence 1s. 8% Fumble Penalty Reduced. level 100, type Fire, DPS 1000, 10% Chance : Meteor, Fire Rain, Break Shields. 40 Health Stolen on hit.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 20, 2018, 04:37:53 am
@steffire3 Not sure about larger two-handers, since I never used melee weapons besides claws, purely due to high DPS. Maybe it's just a matter of balancing.
Few notes about your suggestions: - silence cannot be triggered based on percentage, I'm afraid; it's either present or not - "-x armour per hit" does not work on specific time; it's attached to every weapon hit
I'm going to go with 0.5s attack speed for ease of DPS calculation and prefix all names with "CQC", use common names like Pistol/Sidearm/Revolver/etc, then just add a generic description to all of them.
Edit: I'm running into some issues with weapon DPS. I'm using identical min/max damage graph % values and they continue producing completely random results. Instead of 100 dps, I'm getting anywhere between 90 and 130. I'm assuming pistols use BASE_WEAPON_DAMAGE graph and not something hardcoded. Also, my calculations seem a bit off even though I took all modifiers like speed/rarity/special, as well as actual firerate of the weapon. Above worked flawlessly when calculating armour for the initial mod release, but for weapons it just doesn't add up.
Edit 2: for the sake of clarity, this is how I'm trying to calculate damage: 84 * 0.50 * 0.60 * 1.60 * 1.20 * 2.08(3) 84 is base damage at level 15; 0.50 is percentage of dmg graph; 0.60 is speed dmg mod; 1.60 is rarity dmg mod; 1.20 is special dmg mod; 2.08(3) is multiplier based on weapon speed which is 0.48s, listed as 60 in the editor. Using above numbers and multipliers, DPS should be 100.799, yet it's nowhere near that and remains completely random.
Edit 3: I'm an idiot. I forgot that removing all affixes will make the game assign random ones, and those can affect DPS. The value is static now, both in "game mode" and in DPS chart viewer, but it still refuses to add up. Total DPS should be approx. 100, but I'm getting 86 instead.
Edit 4: or not, I might have been doing this the wrong way. I reckon that with weapon speed 60, the multiplier shouldn't be "1 divided by attack speed", but "100 divided by weapon speed", meaning 2.08333 [1/0.48] gets changed to 1.60 [100/60], bringing the total DPS closer to what I wanted with 96.096 dps, but still a tiny bit off. I just wish the calculation methods were a bit more transparent.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on August 20, 2018, 07:23:24 am
About wierd animation behavior for a fast firing weapon - i think what u can do is make the skill a looping one and use a looping animation (see the embie's magmaspear for how thats done - at least i think its magmaspear :P )
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 20, 2018, 09:46:23 am
@Phanjam this isn't really about skills this time, it's about simple weapons. Scratch that, read below.
@steffire3 I can find all the listed ability affixes except for poison cloud. Are you sure it's not blinding cloud?
Edit: nevermind, there is a poison cloud. I somewhat managed to turn it into a standalone skill, then a proc. Similar issue as the one I had during initial testing of Raze proc: skill itself procs correctly and does damage, but the weapon doesn't. To top it all off, I've done something to the skill that makes it proc on everything and everyone - enemies, smashables, you name it. And it seems to proc every single time it inflicts damage, making the game a lagfest.
Here's the lagfest version:
And here's the previous version that didn't cause a cascade of poison:
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on August 20, 2018, 01:27:14 pm
If the Poison Cloud doesn't work in the end there is another proc weapon skill called "Summon Spore on hit".
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 20, 2018, 06:26:23 pm
@steffire3 now that I think about it, spore might be a better idea. If poison cloud procs several times in a row, it could create a really overpowered wall of death, mainly because the damage seems to stack. Also, here's a screencap of the pistol names. Let me know whether you're ok with them or if you'd prefer them changed. (https://i.imgur.com/2YDVpf6.png)
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on August 20, 2018, 07:30:30 pm
@F430 : I really like the names! It also fits the themes of the other Pistols in game.
There is also "Summon Shadowling on hit" if Spore proves difficult to implement.
I favor where this is going. It's shaping into a very nice CQC Pistol mod! :)
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on August 21, 2018, 01:26:52 am
About the looping animation - sorry my bad for not reading properly!
...I've done something to the skill that makes it proc on everything and everyone - enemies, smashables, you name it. And it seems to proc every single time it inflicts damage, making the game a lagfest.
The proc skills are almost identical... perhaps how youre triggering the proc is more important? - is it a CAST ON STRIKE affix on the weapon?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 21, 2018, 04:37:13 am
@steffire3 Glad you like it. Basically, all the weapons are implemented, they just need affixes. As for poison spore, I recall it's an unused wand chaos passive, so it's already implemented as a proc in vanilla game. It would only be a matter of using an effect and adjusting chance.
@Phanjam this is a weird one, imo. The skill itself seems simple enough to just work. It's got only one level, not difficult to reverse into a proc. And yes, whenever I test affixes, I set them to activate on strike with 100% chance to make sure they actually work. Here's the affix code:
Now, it's most likely down to some specific string/bool in the skill itself. Only thing I can think are flags like ATTACHES/EXCLUSIVE/CAN_CLONE, or something along the lines, I'm not really sure. There are no EVENT_TRIGGER entries, just a single EVENT_START bracket. The former is what stopped the Raze proc from working. But for the poison cloud? Not a clue why the skill works and weapon damage doesn't. It's the exact same problem as Raze, except the original reason for the issue doesn't seem to be there at all. Long story short: I'm at a loss here.
And before I forget: I know affixes can contain more than one effect, but can those effects be of completely different types? Eg. chance to stun via transfer, chance to proc something, chance to break shields etc, all under one affix?
_______________________________________ I got all affixes and data implemented, and compound effects work just fine, meaning I can stuff as many effects under one affix as I want.
@steffire3 update is pretty much ready to "ship", I'd just need to make screencaps of the items and photoshop them into one picture for workshop views. Also, I wasn't sure if your specific affixes like "-40 armour per hit" or "20 HP stolen" would work, but former was a matter of disabling graphs and inputting exact value, latter was just a simple "value at graph level" percentage. All in all, it seems to be working
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on August 21, 2018, 03:09:56 pm
I am very happy to hear this will be released as an individual mod.
Do you think this could also be added to the Ruination mod @Viz ? There is a plan rising among the Torch Modders to make ultimate mod packs for certain topics such as a mod that contains all unique functioning and edited Weapons.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 21, 2018, 03:53:59 pm
@steffire3 the original idea was to release it as another addtion to EEC, not as a standalone mod. If you want it as such, then that's fine by me, but it's still going into the main mod, alongside other weapons that I've got planned as future updates. And if Viz wants to include it in an existing mod compilation, then he's free to do so.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on August 23, 2018, 03:23:29 am
@F430 That's good. I agree it makes more sense to pack it with other weapons in one mod. Which reminds me... @Korzeam may release a TL2 themed Sniper Rifle mod soon which was edited from Xer's version.
Having a mod that will contain all the special modded weapons is quite a gift for the entire community especially to save space on the load order. :)
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 23, 2018, 01:24:54 pm
@steffire3 no rush, I can hold off on releasing the whole thing until you and/or others decide how they want to go about it, if they want it included in other packs, turned into standalone and whatnot.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on August 25, 2018, 06:38:42 pm
@steffire3 no rush, I can hold off on releasing the whole thing until you and/or others decide how they want to go about it, if they want it included in other packs, turned into standalone and whatnot.
@F430 Viz has informed me that he will not be releasing any new mods anytime soon.
My request would be to release the Auto Pistol mod as a standalone and also include it into your mod as well. Korzeam is going to release the TL2 themed Sniper Rifles as a standalone and the Ruination mod is already available on RG Fansite.
That way whoever wants to merge these weapon mods into one "Variant Weapon Pack" will be free to do so.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 25, 2018, 09:02:00 pm
@steffire3 understood, I'll release it once I'm done fixing a few things.
@Phanjam few questions regarding affixes. I've finally fixed the railgun missile. It can no longer be blocked or reflected, which is what I was going for from the start. I managed to do it via affixes, however they make the item card look a bit messy: (https://i.imgur.com/CWe0waD.png)
As you can see, block is listed twice, this is due to "percent block chance" and "percent block chance base" effect types being used simultaneously. Any idea if just one of those would be enough, or should both of them be present? If both are required, is there a way to hide them from the item card without removing them?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Sch123 on August 26, 2018, 10:56:20 am
Is it possible to make weapons that can develop with players?
Strong or weak of a weapon depends on the level of the player. Besides that when the player reaches a certain level, the weapon will get certain abilities. :)
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 26, 2018, 02:06:47 pm
@Sch123 probably with some use of statwatchers that can dynamically change weapon properties like damage, assuming that's possible. But I wouldn't really know, since I'm mainly dealing with simple weapons and affixes, not something that relies on complex logic and the likes.
In other news, GUTS did the absolute worst thing imaginable - affixes that negate missile reflection and block chance suddenly stopped working after I launched the program today. I am 100% sure things were working yesterday during testing phases. Afterwards, I launched the editor again, and as if by some magic the affix I fixed yesterday no longer take effect, despite being listed on the item card. To my knowledge, no files were changed whatsoever, I didn't edit anything in any way and the editor just decided to stop using the changes I've made.
For the last 3 hours I've been cracking my head trying to redo/copypaste/fix/etc everything that I've done yesterday, tried backtracking with exact names, effects, percentages, unitthemes etc, anything I could think of that could be relevant to making everything work again. Even purged the "cache" by exiting the editor and deleting .BINDATs of all relevant files, including the one belonging to the item in question. To no avail...
I'm stuck, dumbfounded and really annoyed by this.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: doudley on August 26, 2018, 07:14:15 pm
@Sch123 probably with some use of statwatchers that can dynamically change weapon properties like damage, assuming that's possible.
It is very possible to use statwatchers to unlock certain parts of the weapon skill, depending on the specific stat of the user. As seen with my mushato / musha weapons https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=150937197
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 27, 2018, 12:20:48 pm
@steffire3 long story short: some things happened, and now a few things are broken. I'll release the pistols asap, both as an EEC update and standalone, as per your request.
As for others: any further requests and ideas are welcome but their implementation will be put on hold until further notice, as well as remaining subject to my ability to pull them off in the first place.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on August 27, 2018, 01:54:21 pm
I like the Rail Driver weapon you made, but there is something that needs to be fixed in shooting accuracy. Sometimes when you shoot an enemy, the enemy isn't hit. And it also seems very difficult to shoot objects such as Barricades, Fire Stoves, Statues, etc.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 27, 2018, 04:54:33 pm
@Sch123 I know, I could only do so much before giving up on trying to fix all of the issues. I'm just about sure majority of them are dealt with by adding homing capabilities and increasing missile speed. Then again the "missile" isn't even a missile as such, it's an invisible projectile that travels at 360m/s with some particle system attached to it. It would seem the game really doesn't like terrain elevation differences, and it might be impossible to address that. Same for hitboxes being dependent on animations, at least I think they might be, since there is no rhyme or reason for the weapon to randomly miss a target one time and hit it perfectly the other.
Now, the "logical" step would be to increase missile collision radius, but that would mean it starts hitting more things than it should. If I slow it down, it will hit stop acting like a hitscan weapon and there will be noticeable flow-breaking delay between firing and hitting an enemy. On top of that, if I slow it down and leave homing speed as it is, it won't travel in a straight line and become even more overpowered than intended.
I know it's not perfect, it's very far from perfect. As much as I hate this, it's a case of win some, lose some - you have a sniper with stupidly long range and high damage, chances to proc debuffs, mechanics that allow it to fire through multiple targets, obstacles and world geometry. On the other hand, it can rarely miss some targets, it ignores enemies behind barricades until the latter are destroyed. I'm starting to think that might be a script thing because those appear to be props attached to enemies that are protected by them, similar to bandits with shields, except they're part of world spawns rather than special items.
Long story short: it's an experimental "proof of concept" that I very much have a love-hate relationship with. If you're disappointed by it, I can only apologise. My modding abilities allowed me to get it right only so much before there was nothing more that could be addressed :\
____________________________________________ Edit: just did a quick purge and recompile, also pushed an update on the offchance it may fix potential issues due to GUTS not liking date mismatch on DAT vs BINDAT files. Also had another go at Echo Pass with the railgun. Out of every single enemy there, only one failed to get hit on the first go, they did however go down on 2nd attempt. All other enemies died in one hit with no retries. As for barricades, I reckon it's possible to bypass them and shoot enemies directly by using "hold position" key and aiming about a metre ahead of them. In theory, this should make the missile ignore said barricade and hit the enemy behind it. At least it worked 3 out of 3 times I've tried it on the bears with spears.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Sch123 on August 28, 2018, 09:49:24 am
I have another idea ;):
This weapon idea from the Black Clover anime, the 1H Sword weapon used by Asta (http://blackclover.wikia.com/wiki/Asta).
@F430 Thanks for the release and the Mana Regen Fix! :)
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 30, 2018, 01:05:08 am
@Sch123 I'll think about it. Work should pick up again soon, so I won't have too much time to reverse unfamiliar mods for special effects. I might give it a go at some point, however.
@steffire3 curiousity got the best of me and I had another go at trying to get poison cloud to work on getting hit. Honestly, I feel dumb now, because it was a matter of using effect name CHAMPIONGAS, setting it to passive with x% chance to happen. That's it, that's all that was needed to make it work. No need for converting it into a standalone skill [because it already is a standalone skill...] or other shenanigans, just call the effect in an affix and job done.
I'd like to know if you're interested in having it re-implemented and used over the fallback ability, because based on my testing, the spore is a rather underwhelming thing overall. On top of that, the poison cloud skill itself scales with user, making the whole weapon viable late-game as decent crowd control, since it also works with the whole idea of CQC.
Lastly, since single-level skills can be utilitarian, defensive, or offensive, this could open up possibilities for a whole new range of existing skills being re-used as weapon procs. One can finally fight fire with fire. I'm sure this premise has already been visited but it's new and interesting to me.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on August 30, 2018, 08:42:10 pm
@F430 : I absolutely enjoy this possibility with the crowd efficient Poison Cloud for CQC Poison Pistols (yes, please replace Poison Spore) and making Skills enact from Weapons to make late game viable options... this is something I've seen Grim Dawn do and I've wanted TL2 to have something similar through modded means...
Grim Dawn also allows Affixes that give an extra Skill Point to all Skills and TL2 has this same feature more restricted in the form of Shrines.
= = =
@Goblin informed me from Discord that he is requesting if you could make CQC Shotguns that are very slow and have extreme Knockback?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on August 31, 2018, 12:30:29 am
@steffire3 saw his thread/post on the CQC page and replied just now, I should be able to do it, but it might need some brainstorming to make the guns genuinely useful rather than releasing a mod based solely on a novel idea.
As for the poison cloud, it's a very easy fix. Simple matter of replacing the effect name and leaving everything else as is. Initially I was worried that I'd get killed by the cloud but fortunately the game seems to use basic logic that a skill caster automatically becomes its owner, and the skill uses a target alignment string to make sure only specific things get hit blah blah blah, I was hoping it would be fixable, as the poison pistols were kind of useless, but the cloud can make them quite useful again. I'll patch the mod shortly. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on September 22, 2018, 01:47:17 am
Paging @steffire3 ! As a little experiment, I made a booster potion that will temporarily improve charge gain and lessen its decay rate. It works fine, spawns as a generic potion drop, there are no issues with it. Except for one - how do I make it at least a bit lore-friendly? Initially the idea came from HEV suit batteries from Half Life games, and I wanted to use the suit battery render as the potion icon, but for now I'm using the glowing power source icon, as well as a custom sound, but more on that later. The item itself is called "Suit Battery" and item card reads that it was reverse engineered from a Dwarven Automaton. That's all fine and dandy, since they're placeholders for now, but I'm sure there is something more suitable as far as names and descriptions go, which is where your knowledge may come in handy, I believe.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on September 23, 2018, 04:51:43 pm
@F430 By all means! Wars inside the realm of Vilderan (Torchlight's Continent) are usually fought for control of rechargeable Embers, Crystals and Works like the Clockwork Core and the Automatons.
Ezrohir are always on Life Support desperately seeking ways to acquire fresh power sources from their neighbors now enemies from the Zeryphi and even the Estherian regions including the land of the dark arts in Grunnheim which also connects the zombified Dwarves and almost extinct Dragons to this theme equally.
And of course our very own Embermage and Engineer are Imperials from Red Haven which runs the Ember Transportation service and runs on such resource and it's bartering rights towards mining it in these very lands.
The Berserker and Outlander are the most untraceable of our vanilla Classes however it appears that Zerks roam the northern regions and Outlanders may be wayfarers from much warmer regions just based on their preferred styles of clothing and lore and yes they need power sources to empower themselves in a more uniquely tribal and independent way in contrast towards the other factions.
= = =
It's possible the Nine Kingdoms (Asian Theme, Armor and Culture) may be located in the southern Continent however it's only my theory based on everyone else's observation.
Tarroch is the founder of Outlanders (possible Zeryphi, Nine Kingdoms and Grunnheim influence being travelers). Mondon is the founder of the Imperials. Valgang is the founder of the Berserkers.
http://forums.runicgames.com/discussion/49510/berserker-lore Berserkers are the most ferocious fighters of the Valgang tribes of the icy north. Driven by a hunger for fame and glory, they head south, seeking adventure. Berserkers draw power from their totem animals: Vur, the Wolf; Dralk, the Dragon; and Krax, the Raven.
http://torchlight.wikia.com/wiki/Berserker The Berserker was originally intended to use skills themed around three animal spirits. The class description on the official website names three totem animals: Vur, the Wolf; Dralk, the Dragon; and Krax, the Raven.[1] During development, the class was altered to center exclusively around wolf-themed skills.
Safe to guess that Grunnheim where Ravens, Dragons and Wolves are found may be near where Zerks originate probably to the north.
= = =
Mind Note: Trill Bot confirms in game that "Veras" is either the name of the continent where Red Haven is located (descended from Mondon's Empire) or is the name of the World itself.
Fun Fact: The next game Frontiers either takes place before or after the events of TL1 and 2. Either way we will see how Red Haven (proven by the Engineer speaking in the trailer) got so much influence and mercenaries to get more resource and outperform enemy cultures outside their forts.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on September 25, 2018, 04:46:37 am
@steffire3 while I do appreciate it, it's not exactly what I was referring to. I simply need some lore-friendly ideas on item names and descriptions. Ember is a neat way to make everything seemingly odd fit in the game but it's way overused, in my opinion. Hence the question, and again, deferring to you on this - what sort of name/description should I give the potion?
Do keep in mind, it's only a potion because of how those work [class-neutral boosts over specific time], and it's an easy way to make them compatible with any other mods, since they won't affect spawnclasses or require new unittypes. With that said, there is some flow break to it, because you can't really drink automaton fuel, as amusing as that may sound. At the same time, I won't need a 3 paragraph item description that makes logical sense in a world where touching magical minerals gives you superpowers.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on September 25, 2018, 07:42:27 am
Neither lore-friendly or -unfriendly, but how about just Adrenaline?
Somewhat physiologically accurate as well :D
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on September 25, 2018, 08:04:13 am
Shhhh, adrenaline is reserved for a completely different idea :v Well, not completely different. You pop one of those bad boys and it fills your charge bar. Now I just need to find a way to make it last 30 seconds even though it does one thing on use and then absolutely nothing. Emulation of cooldown for sake of balancing and all that jazz. Do you think using an effect "NONE" with 30 sec duration could solve this?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on September 25, 2018, 06:07:38 pm
I would think (sorry cant check like right right now :D ) it would need a 2 affix set up. First to jackup the charge, the second to drop it to zero and kicks in at a predefined interval.
I think the zerker's "berserk" charge effect is setup that way. May be worth checking to see if u can rev-engineer it
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on September 26, 2018, 02:21:56 pm
@F430 TL2 unfortunately wasn't very creative in it's terminology and left the explanation very vague. The Embers run on an Energy source sometimes referred to as Magic, Corruption, Blight, Essence, Heart, Life, Darkness, Light, Power, Binding, Rage, Wrath, Illness... so it's basically sourced from external emotions, health, physics or intentions boiled down into a liquefied form and then called whatever the various different tribal nations of the world wanted to name it.
Hence Embers are merely a vessel like your potions. They are not the actual source of power that courses within and therefore must be recharged by a source of this power that no one in this world seems to have completely understood.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on September 27, 2018, 01:32:05 am
@steffire3 in that case, Imma go with "Charge Booster" and make up some loosely fitting description.
@Phanjam can potions even use affixes? From what I saw, they only have prefab effects and nothing else. No skills, affixes etc. And you might want to explain the zerker charge thing, since the only thing I remember about it is that every hit crits when the charge bar is full. I haven't played that class in absolute ages.
Another question: is it possible for items with identical display names to never spawn despite their internal names being completely different and not even being in the same unittype?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on September 27, 2018, 11:25:13 pm
Quote from: F430
can potions even use affixes? From what I saw, they only have prefab effects and nothing else. No skills, affixes etc.
ye i checked and no AFFIXES :o i havent tried but i see no technical reason why using an AFFIX instead wouldnt work (its just a different way to pack-up EFFECTs anyways).
Quote from: F430
And you might want to explain the zerker charge thing, since the only thing I remember about it is that every hit crits when the charge bar is full. I haven't played that class in absolute ages.
Ye i just looked thru its files and... its a bad example! :D will see if i can find a better one, but meanwhile maybe this thread might help... http://torchmodders.com/forums/modding-questions/(tl2)-wtfh-is-the-charge-bar/msg8828/#msg8828
Quote from: F430
is it possible for items with identical display names to never spawn despite their internal names being completely different and not even being in the same unittype?
anything's possible, but if the GUID and <STRING>NAME: vaues are different, just having the same display name shouldnt be a cause for the item/s to not spawn. Have you checked your spawnclass settings for those items?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on September 28, 2018, 06:52:53 am
@Phanjam I don't think I'll bother with affixes this time around. I'll just give it a global effect and leave it at that. Already done that for the testing phase and it works fine. Though it's quite amusing since zerker with maxed charge can just sprint through everything and the countdown doesn't start until you hit an enemy.
As for the items failing to spawn, I've checked GUIDs and names, and there are no overlaps, item codes don't look unusual either. The only thing I can think of is some of the items don't have in-game descriptions, but that doesn't stop the game from spawning items like lucky coin etc. Also, they don't belong to a spawn class because I always try to make my mods as simple and compatible with everything as possible; I just stick things in an existing unittype, which is UNIQUE SOCKETABLE for the ones I haven't seen drop yet, and hope for the best. I'm starting to think the vanilla game is just really stingy with spawning socketables in general, for whatever reason. Then again spawnclass system is a mess anyway...
In synergies, I had stockpiles of socketables, then I stopped using the mod and suddenly the drop rates went down massively. On the other hand, I barely had any legendaries from playing synergies, but in vanilla they seem a lot more common. Oh well.......
Edit: 2 more questions, random ones: if I install a mod that changes skill tier requirement graphs [graph offsets controlling skill and skill level unlocks], will that cause it to bind to save? And secondly - is it intentional for the game to randomly assign more affixes for items which already had their "affixes" set up via Effects tab in GUTS?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on September 30, 2018, 02:31:45 pm
On the question of Skill Level Unlock Graphs Binding:
I have yet to see or read of a mod that Binds with that kind of edit.
It would have to change the Skill's content in order for it to Bind to the Save.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on October 03, 2018, 05:12:04 pm
Whoop dee doo, the skill mallarkey continues.
Tried skill-to-proc'ing Emberquake for a weapon and it does the exact same thing that Poison Cloud did when I last tried converting it into a proc, which wasn't even needed to begin with, but no matter.
Here's the code:
As you can see, I've tried all sorts of bools that kinda make sense to limit the skill, like damage shapes hit once, can proc from skills, attaches, can clone, etc. It's basically a cascade/chain reaction, the skill casts ITSELF from enemies that get hit with it and I don't know how to prevent it.
Any help will be greatly appreciated, since my ineptitude with this will only delay the already announced patch :\
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on October 05, 2018, 03:21:03 am
Hey @F430 this procs off a weapon hit? So is it built in to the weapon via an AFFIX or an EFFECT? Can we see that code pls?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on October 05, 2018, 07:59:08 am
@Phanjam I somehow got it working, possibly with "placeontarget:1", which is what every wand chaos proc does, though I have no clue why it makes such a massive difference. And it's integrated via effect tab;
[EFFECT] <STRING>NAME:EEC_Emberquake_Proc <STRING>ACTIVATION:PASSIVE <INTEGER>LEVEL:1 <STRING>TYPE:CAST SKILL <STRING>DAMAGE_TYPE:ALL <BOOL>SAVE:false <BOOL>EXCLUSIVE:true <FLOAT>MIN:25 <FLOAT>MAX:25 [/EFFECT]Tried various effect type entries, like cast skill from target, cast skill on melee strike, etc. Some made it not proc at all, others made it proc erratically, eg. it was cast a few times, then never again. One even made the display card call it by its internal name rather than what's under "displayname". Sheesh.
TL;DR it works but I'm still unsure how, not that I'm complaining. Updated and working proc code in case anyone ever wanted to use it:
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on October 05, 2018, 08:07:26 am
Glad its working!
As for what was going on previously, maybe because there was no TARGET and/or TARGET_TYPE defined in the opening lines of the skill (and PLACE ON TARGET addressed that maybe)? But im just reaching with that :P
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on October 05, 2018, 09:35:39 am
Or it could be CAST SKILL under effect type, or exclusive:true, I honestly can't say at this point. Another thing is that about half the strings/bools look redundant on first glance and have no clear indication of their importance, making the whole thing even more difficult, ie. "attaches", "follows", "attach effects", "always attach effects", etc etc, it's all really confusing still.
However, there's one skill I've been curious about for a while but found nothing to lead me to how it works - hovering. Roach enemies use it, same for Cacklespit and Manticore. I was wondering if it's possible to somehow implement it as a player skill from a consumable. Could add something interesting to the game but I don't know if it would like the player character doing that. Rough idea would be to have a rare consumable in the form a potion that makes you hover up in the air for a second or so, then teleports you away from danger, or....into more danger! A sort of an evasive measure with a hint of gamble. A plain old "TELEPORT RANDOM" effect type is all nice but hovering would make it look really fancy and well-made :v
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Aherin on October 06, 2018, 03:46:06 am
My guess is that hovering is a combination of an animation made specifically for those models and a skill which makes the monster take no damage when it occurs.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on October 06, 2018, 04:06:51 pm
Aaaaaand here we go again, with the main theme of skill conversion. I'll forget the hovering thing, since if Aherin's heads-up is any indication, it's not really meant to be used by player characters.
Anywho, currently working on a weapon that procs shockbolts and the whole thing is rather erratic. If it "works", the skill visibly casts before the projectile hits its target, otherwise it doesn't cast at all, or does so ahead of the target, somewhere along the projectile's predicted flight path.
[EFFECT] <STRING>NAME:EEC_Shockbolt_Proc <STRING>ACTIVATION:PASSIVE <INTEGER>LEVEL:1 <STRING>TYPE:CAST SKILL FROM TARGET <BOOL>SAVE:false <BOOL>EXCLUSIVE:true <FLOAT>MIN:100 <FLOAT>MAX:100 [/EFFECT] The current setting, "CAST SKILL FROM TARGET", breaks it completely; it won't cast at all. Also note that I've tried quite a few combinations of EVENT_ brackets like MISSILEHIT, MISSILEDIE, START, END, and fire from/at bone as well.
As for what I'm actually trying to accomplish here: I want the skill to proc when the missile hits an enemy. It either does so before it hits a target, or procs some distance behind it. The skill also casts from the other weapon, not just the one which holds the proc.
So yeah, I'm kinda stumped here, since this is probably more technical than I can muster for the time being, and any pointers or tips would be appreciated. And lastly, this skill has FOUR target/target type checks, yet still casts from nothing with CAST SKILL type, doesn't cast at all with CAST SKILL FROM TARGET, even if there is one...
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on October 06, 2018, 05:42:17 pm
Hi F430! On my phone so havent tested but id try 1. Remove SKILL TYPE (should work without such) 2. Remove USEWEAPONANIMATION (proc skills cant use anims) 3. Remove PROC FROM SKILL:0 (should work without such and, if u think about it, u are asking it to proc from the missile skill) 4. Remove REQUIRES TARGET or else it wont cast unless there IS a target in range. Also it sounded like u want it to cast in any case. 5. Remove the EVENT_START block that has the warmup.layout. that was meant to be used for/attached to the char. Could be adding "interference" in the proccing.
Will check back.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on October 06, 2018, 06:41:48 pm
Alright, everything was the way I pasted it, then I applied your changes and the skill doesn't activate and this time EffectType [ON STRIKE/ON STRIKE FROM TARGET/etc] doesn't matter at all.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on October 06, 2018, 07:32:58 pm
okay, can i see the missile skill code too pls?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on October 06, 2018, 08:22:12 pm
Okay i got it working, but i used this inside the missile skill...
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on October 07, 2018, 04:25:27 am
I didn't really get the "missile skill" question since I just used a basic projectile, attached it to a wand and tried to get a proc working upon hitting an enemy, so there were no extra skills involved....although I was considering doing a two-stage skill, one attached to a weapon directly through [SKILL] brackets with fixed cast odds/chance, then a subsequent one firing from [EXECUTE_SKILL] when a condition was met.
Is that what you mean with those two files? Because again, it's a weapon proc, not a character skill. And I honestly didn't consider EVENT_UNITHIT because I always thought it implies the player character, not enemy, though I was probably wrong and that bracket relies on target alignment for checks on what to apply and where, oh well.
Anywho, thanks for the solution, I'll see if I can integrate this somehow and will post results, probably very soon since it's bound to go wrong at some point.
Edit: just tried using the exact files you provided, after adjusting internals/names etc, but it doesn't work at all, so kinda back to square one with this.
Edit 2: another issue I'm having is if I fire the weapon at point blank range, particles defined under missile's "HIT" section don't play, presumably because the missile doesn't have enough room to spawn. I'm also unsure if there is a way to override them to always play or something along those lines. Obviously weapon damage still connects as normal and the particle issue is mostly visible on melee enemies.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on October 07, 2018, 05:19:42 pm
Hey @F430 sorry there i go again assuming it was for a skill :P
So for an inherent EFFECT on a weapon yes we go back to having an affix that gives the weapon that skill. I looked at some wands that have this and they use the EFFECT "CAST SKILL ON STRIKE FROM TARGET" (there really should be a comma in there like" cast skill on strike, from target" to make it more intuitive) and apply it with ACTIVATION:PASSIVE and MIN/MAX chance = 100.
The skill itself needs to be revised to be an on-weapon passsive, like change to "ALIGNMENT:GOOD" because of that "FROM TARGET" part, so it will hit units IT is friendly too (EVIL to you).
You can also get rid of "ATTACHTOTARGET" and "DAMAGESHAPES_HIT_ONCE" lines, since they are needed when EXECUTING the skill from the unit hit (an event that is just using the unit as a point to cast itself from) as opposed to the unit itself CASTING the skill.
I hope that helped!
(and couldnt help myself, i revised the mod files to produce the wand with the procand attached them here... ;) )
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on October 07, 2018, 06:52:49 pm
Thanks for that @Phanjam looks like it works as intended, but one issue remains: the skill procs off another weapon if I'm using two 1-handed ranged weapons, even if they're completely different ones, eg default starter pistol from outlander preset char [GUTS testing] and the main wand I'm working on.
This will defo sound a bit roundabout but it might be possible to reverse exploding glaive and how it casts a skill on missile impact. I know it would pretty much waste your effort here but at the same time it would also ensure that the proc doesn't fire via another weapon, especially if said weapon is something that isn't even supposed to fire that skill.
So here's a "quick" rundown of what I'm thinking. Change effect type strapped to the wand to "CAST SKILL", modify base/parent skill to include a layout which spawns wand missiles, have an EVENT_MISSILEDIE bracket that calls 2nd skill which procs the shockbolts, and that should cover it.
Oh yeah and then there's that thing poking my tiny OCD, the whole "no hit particles on point blank strike" zzzzzzz. But if memory serves, layouts can contain a type of "starting" particle, stuff that shows as soon as the skill is cast.
The above is just "thinking out loud", I'd be happy to see what you reckon because there might be an even easier way, cos the one I'm pondering now is kinda technical, a bit roundabout, but overall not too complicated.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on October 08, 2018, 02:51:39 am
hey F430! Hahaha yes i re-tested in GUTS and saw how it procs from a pistol! :D
My first reaction was to try putting REQUIREMENT_LEFT:WAND / _RIGHT:WAND on the proc skill, but of course that didn't work :P
It really is quite a brainbuster - I am challenged and will experiment some more ;) I'm quite sure its doable; i just hope it doesnt end up being a gordian knot of a solution!
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on October 08, 2018, 09:56:56 am
Good grief, tell me about it...
I also realised that my proposed solution will be a mess too, since I completely forgot that 100% cast chance is ONLY during testing to make sure the procs work, while it would normally be 12-16% in release version, since I normally base odds on DPS and weapon speed etc.
But yeah, I was thinking about attaching a skill, like rifles and cannons do to all the weapons. Said skill spawns the missile, and the detonation particles on impact would spawn via EXECUTE_SKILL, but that creates an issue because it would need another skill that has a chance to proc shockbolts.
And here's where the fun begins: how do we link a missile spawner from the parent weapon skill and tell it to ALWAYS spawn the missile, BUT also give the missile a 16% chance to proc shockbolts???
If that can be figured out, then we are golden and I do appreciate your interest and will to experiment with this weird creation. I was thinking about 2 EXECUTE_SKILL brackets, one calling the missile spawner with 100% chance, while the shockbolt proc would have its own cast chance INSIDE the skill file. Do you think that would work or would EXECUTE_SKILL just override that?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on October 11, 2018, 06:30:02 am
I tried the idea of building a unit spawner into the DIE/HIT particle of the missile - it will not take :(
I changed the proc to spawn a dummy/invisible unit which would then cast the shock bolt skill. But, just like the original proc, the dummy would spawn even from a pistol hit :(
I guess for as long as the player is holding the weapon which gives him the CAST ON STRIKE... proc, it will then proc on any strike. To take the proc away u need to take the weapon away - catch 22!
Not ideal, but if u limit this proc to staves (2-handed) it will at least eliminate strikes from any other weapon.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on October 12, 2018, 05:16:30 am
Hiya @Phanjam finally got a few days off so decided to give this a proper go.
I got good news and bad news: good news is using the missile/impact FX spawner works fine for now; haven't tried making it cast shockbolts just yet, only just about getting the hang of advanced layout use.
Bad news is... the missile "skill" fires about 20 times per second as long as the target is highlit. Yes, 20 times per second with no player input. How do I remedy this?
Here's the "parent" skill code. By parent I mean it's attached directly to the item via Skills tab, not via Effects or Affix list.
Also, it would appear the missile itself fires from character's feet rather than wand. Any ideas as to which file controls this? Is it down to the spawner or can skill controller modify firing offset/position?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on October 12, 2018, 08:36:54 am
the missile/impact FX spawner works fine for now; haven't tried making it cast shockbolts just yet, only just about getting the hang of advanced layout use.
This is a replacement to the standard missile declared for a wand? Thats innovative!
Quote
Bad news is... the missile "skill" fires about 20 times per second as long as the target is highlit. Yes, 20 times per second with no player input. How do I remedy this?
Just highlit? Not even clicked on? A quick remedy i can think to try is give it a cooldown. But something else is the root cause.
Quote
Here's the "parent" skill code. By parent I mean it's attached directly to the item via Skills tab, not via Effects or Affix list.
Like i said, SO innovative! So the wand unit .DAT uses a [SKILL][/SKILL] block to house this skill? I have a hunch this setup has something to do with that continuous firing thing tho.
Quote
Also, it would appear the missile itself fires from character's feet rather than wand. Any ideas as to which file controls this? Is it down to the spawner or can skill controller modify firing offset/position?
Yes thats controlled inside the missile spawner. I believe theyre PositionX, Y and Z settings in the missile .layout
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on October 12, 2018, 09:02:34 am
Yep, that's a complete replacement for missile, as spawned with skill layouts. To be fair, all I've done was retracing RNF's TL1 rifles which attach base skill to items, with said skill having a .layout which spawns units.
And well, I might have been exagerrating with 20, it's more like 5-6 or so, but the wand seems to continue firing without player input, OR as long as target is highlit after being clicked on once, not entirely sure as I didn't catch the exact timing. If memory serves, his rifle skill entries don't have a cooldown either, so it might be something in missile spawner .layout, I'll have a look later on, in the meantime, I can paste a couple codes.
Unit data:
Missile spawner:
Alternatively, I can copy entire mod folder, isolate the files I'm working on and then pack and attach for your consideration if you'd like. As you've noticed from parent skill, I moved every skill/layout file to "media/skills/weapon" dir, might do the same for other skills in next update; seems a lot easier to work skills from a single folder as long as names are really obvious and verbose. Also, if the whole shockbolt deal doesn't work, and chances are that might be the case, there's a fallback I have in mind, but more on that later.
Edit: I've done some more testing and....I still don't know how to make it fire once, or make it fire from the weapon rather than character bone. At least this time I know what the skills is doing. It's firing new missile as soon as old missile registers a hit, but I still have no clue how to make it fire manually. Tried different strings/bools/etc like duration override, cooldown, execute skill count, cloning set to 1, that sort of thing. At this stage I'm curious if the skill loops between _START and _MISSILEDIE because there is no EVENT_END, but TL1 rifle skill only has EVENT_START and works just fine. I've done a side-by-side comparison between TL1 rifles' skill, unit spawner and timeline properties; no changes, still reactivates the moment an existing missile hits target.
Edit 2: something weird just happened with GUTS. I restarted it to make sure skill edits take effect, and now it insists on using default FIREWAND missile no matter what. It makes all edits and the attached skill completely useless. I keep manually deleting the missile entry but it keeps coming back. Other than creating new basefiles that omit MISSILE entries, I have no clue what to do.
Edit 3: tried the new basefile route, made sure everything is identical to vanilla basefiles barring missile entries and GUIDs. Still no dice, skill won't fire. I'm attaching the archive for the wand, its associated particles, skills, missiles, anything related to the item itself. Perhaps you can shed some light on why it doesn't work or maybe why GUTS suddenly decided to start breaking things.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on October 15, 2018, 12:46:47 am
oh hey @F430 i posted elsewhere that im taking an indefinite break from modding, so i'm sorry but i wont be able to help you out directly with test edits and such. I'll still be around, so tips and advice I can still offer ;)
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on October 15, 2018, 02:39:02 am
Funny you should say that @Phanjam https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/changelog/1429753490
I've already learned to have at least 2-3 fallback ideas when dealing with the editor. Anywho, gonna work on final class-themed weapon soon, a shotgun for outlander that spawns netherling brute on kill, 5% chance or so. Already analysed wand chaos shadow bat proc for basic skill-to-proc conversion template, as well as main skill data for the shadowling brute.
The only advice I can ask from you, since you're awol from modding - what sort of affixes/data I can ditch from the skill and affixes it adds, which bits of info I can integrate into summon's main data file: health? Armour? Damage ranges and/or graph use?
Also, should I make it, a) timer-based and invulnerable BUT relatively weak? -or- b) isn't bound by timers and can be killed, BUT would also be kinda powerful ?
Other ideas for balancing would be appreciated, not direct help, just general tips etc, since I'm already torn after playtesting gauss wand, since it turned out....possibly more OP than vanilla prismatic bolt with maxxed focus :v Maybe not as badly, but it's still a meat grinder in the dungeons, though that kinda is the point of all 4 class-inspired guns.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on October 15, 2018, 08:51:26 pm
Quote from: F430
...what sort of affixes/data I can ditch from the skill and affixes it adds, which bits of info I can integrate into summon's main data file: health? Armour? Damage ranges and/or graph use?
I usually decide from wanting to keep the code in the skill as simple as possible, so yes i move any unit-defining stuff into the unit .DAT. Always makes me nervous having affixes give a unit its characteristics! ???
There are however instances when that might be useful; like if you want the skill to summon a unit that gets stronger over several levels of the skill. You could have just one base unit and then an affix to buff it per-level.
Quote from: F430
Also, should I make it, a) timer-based and invulnerable BUT relatively weak? -or- b) isn't bound by timers and can be killed, BUT would also be kinda powerful ?
Again in the interest of simplicity I'd just make it invincibe and put it on a timer. SO much more predictable for designing what impact the skill will have during combat!
The only exception I can see atm would be summons for a "summoner class" type of character; you might want those to actually stick around.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on October 15, 2018, 09:29:08 pm
oh hey @F430 i hope u dont mind but i plugged your EEC mod on both the Runic Games and Trochmodders discord servers ;D
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on October 16, 2018, 02:47:43 pm
Firstly, no @Phanjam I don't mind extra press at all, be my guest if you want to plug the mod somewhere. Secondly, there will be no skill levels, though I worded half of that post wrong, whelp.
This would be item #4 from the class-themed weapons; I already got a claw, wand, hammer, and this rifle is the last thing to be released. I'll deliberate timed+godmode VS killable+stronk, but from a random piece of testing I've done that wasn't even related to this item, the brute basically dies in 3 hits against basic melee bandit enemies, which is a bit of a letdown, so...... I'm pondering making it stronger, a lot stronger, give it boss/champ resists? Perhaps a couple extra basic skills? Though I would probably need to do a lot of debugging, like health/damage graph use etc. That sorta technical thing to make sure it's useful.
It's all up in the air for now and any suggestions are welcome.
Oh and before I forget, I know it's possible to make and intergrate skills into weapons, give them missile spawners yadda yadda, BUT is it possible to make said missile spawners create them all in one go and in a 3D cone rather than a horizontal line?
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on October 22, 2018, 04:11:48 pm
I just received a report that custom UI icons aren't working, changed some things around and pushed an update. However I would like you, assuming you're still subscribed, to either confirm or deny that said icons are fixed. Easiest way to do that would be to create a new character and cheat the items in, commands are "item eec_adrenaline_pill" and "item eec_charge_booster_1", pick them up, use and see if icons show up.
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on October 23, 2018, 06:15:12 pm
@F430 I confirm that these two items are working very well including their icons! :)
= = =
So I've been meaning to write this list for your EEC mod for some time now and I finally got it:
Level 100 Unique : ELEMENTAL MINION ARMOR SETS: Make sure that any Class can wear them. Thanks! :)
I hope you can find a way to implement these Sets.
I tried to convey how to make the Physical Set uniquely different from the other themes by writing it's differences in Red.
It would take 6 pieces of the Electric Set totaling (+60% P&M_D) to get 12% positive against 6 pieces of the Physical Set's brutal totaling of (-48% P&M_D). Ice Set at 6 pieces would boost Minion Speed by 60% which in theory offsets the bad Minion effects of the Physical Set equally. Fire and Poison have similar offsets against Physical Set Minion Losses in the form of defensive boosts at 60% with 6 pieces. However if players do not require Minions or Pets to deal damage then an exclusive build of the Physical Minion Set would boost the Player twice more than the other Minion Sets. An interesting balance and choice for players to have. :o
These 5 Sets are intended to have the option of being mixed together or exclusively gathered to increase build diversity.
Let me know if I need to explain with more detail as I tried to describe the plan as concisely as possible. :D
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on October 24, 2018, 07:36:54 am
@steffire3 This is based on rather simple, and potentially incorrect, interpretation of how pets/minions work, but unless otherwise stated somewhere, pets only deal physical damage, and gimping that in favour of damage types that aren't accessible to pets is counter-intuitive. On top of that, I don't know exact stats of armour pieces, so not only does the pet become ineffective in combat, the player does so as well. Third and final piece of "bad news" is that I'm done with EEC. I implemented and released everything I wanted the mod to have and this is it as far I see it.
Therefore, unless you can convince me otherwise and elaborate on some key aspects of this set, the whole thing is up in the air.
Edit: that wasn't meant to sound like I'm aloof to your suggestion, or forgot about you testing stuff for me. It's just that based on what I gathered, the whole thing seems to be more of a hindrance rather than a benefit.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: steffire3 on October 24, 2018, 10:01:41 am
@F430 Perhaps the "Minion" name of the Sets is confusing (I also considered naming them "Summon" Sets). Pets and Minions still follow the same rules and restrictions that vanilla TL2 Affixes will enforce on these Sets.
The Affixes are affecting the Player only unless the Affix directly states "Pet and Minion" just as vanilla TL2 already does.
The P&M Gimping or Nerfing that occurs on Physical Sets in favor of Buffing the Player may be possible if TL2 permits negative Pet and Minion Affixes. Losing some numbers to gain other numbers is reminiscent of the vanilla TL2 Asphyx Set.
However I will gladly drop the Pet Minion Negative Damage and just ask for the Physical Set to give Pet Minions a little of all four Pet Minion Boosts if needed. :D
= = =
For Armor Values I say that: Helms, Robes (Shoulders), Cores (Chests), Pants, Hands and Boots will give 200 Physical Armor and the Belts, Necks and Rings give 300 to All Elemental Armor = All Sets therefore give 1200 total Physical and 1200 total All Elemental Armor and... ...whichever Set the Theme is will double the Theme Armor amount so the Fire Set would give 2400 total Fire Armor and likewise for the other Sets respective to their Theme.
For Strength, Dexterity, Focus and Vitality requirements: I was thinking of setting them all at 150 leading to a 600 total that is over the 495 vanilla gain limit which then requires Players to use Boris the Stat Enchanter on other Gear in order to wear these Sets before reaching Level 100.
I have made changes to the Set Pieces: So they now have greater individual value for a Player by giving them 2 or 4 generally useful Affixes within reason (totaling 24 more Affixes given by any one of these Unique Sets).
I also rewrote the numbers to consistently apply boosts by the numbers 10, 100 or 1000.
I should say that:
"Pet and Minion (Theme)" means it could be one of 4 things : P&M Damage, P&M Armor, P&M Health or P&M Speed.
"(Theme) Damage or Armor" is referring to Physical, Ice, Fire, Poison or Electric Damage or Armor added to the Player and not Pet Minions.
I apologize as I should have been more clear on this (Set Theme) separation between the Player and the Pet Minions. :o
= = =
If necessary then I will gladly settle for only One Set that only specializes in doubling Physical values and only increases Pet Minion Damage.
I value your opinion and gladly accept any Affix changes or Numerical edits in order to fit this plan into the EEC Mod or by Vanilla Values for a Standalone Mod as needed. :)
= = =
Congrats on finishing your EEC Mod!!! :) This mod is a great contribution to our combined community! Do you plan to release this mod on the Nexus site and the Runic Fansite?
I can safely hold this "Minion Set Plan" request for another time for another modder. It's what I do with all my requests over the years. What matters is that you have achieved your goals and have fulfilled your plan! :D
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on October 24, 2018, 11:37:32 pm
hey @F430 being on "modding break" i was looking thrugh my junk at what i might pass along, and i found a whole bunch of custom bow meshes :)
Youre welcome to them if youd like to maybe make some crazy new items out of them ;)
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: F430 on October 28, 2018, 09:03:41 am
@steffire3 sorry but that's a pass. Pets were never meant to be a primary focus of the game, not to mention majority of players will choose either vanilla, or some large-scale conversions like Synergies, or one of those popular compilations. Balancing should always be attempted with the above in mind and, considering the gap between vanilla and Syn/other overhauls, it's borderline impossible. Pets will be stupidly OP in vanilla and still borderline useless in Syn/etc. Not to mention revolving entire sets around what is basically a mobile aggro beacon feels rather impractical, especially if there are no universal benefits other than the off-chance someone actually uses pets for something other than secondary inventory.
The main point of EEC was to benefit the player without sacrificing balance. I deliberately chose numbers/affixes/stats/etc that struck a balance between survivability [Syn] and comfort [vanilla], all the while not favouring a specific class or playstyle. Reliance on pets/summons is a playstyle and if I were to start catering to specific playstyles/classes, that would defeat the primary point of EEC in its entirety.
As for comfy mode vs hard mode, that's the main reason there are 4 stages of armour. If players feel comfortable enough taking hits without dying instantly, they'll settle for Stage 1/2, otherwise they will craft the highest stage for higher difficulties and/or higher difficulty mods. The mod itself also addressed the main gripe a lot of people may have had, the same gripe I've had with vanilla's lackluster sets, and Synergies' over-the-top "endgame" armours that forced players to jump through ridiculous hurdles.
And lastly, going back to your sets. All of what you're listing is easily made redundant by Skull of Umbarmum [+35% pet/minion dmg], Skull of Quato [+64 to all elemental armour], and then some, all without arbitrary restrictions of 4 different armour sets. And if that isn't enough, there already exist properly fleshed-out mods that add more socketables of different varieties, all with different bonuses and drawbacks.
I'm not being lazy, I'm not backpedalling, making excuses, or calling your ideas useless. No. All I'm saying is that a stock, unmodded game already has the means to rely on pets and summons without requiring mods like EEC, which in itself exists to address a lack of versatile player armour for endgame chars. And before you say anything - T3 of EEC armour needs 5 pieces to grant 100% chance of burn/shock/poison/freeze for 5 seconds, while T3 belt gives you 1790 physical damage over 5 seconds. All of those are from the armour itself, meaning they're added to every attack, irrespective of weapon stats.
@Phanjam I have no software to deal with 3D models, nor do I have time to get it and learn how to use it. Pretty sure Anarch or Kvazimoda could make better use of those assets.
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Phanjam on October 29, 2018, 03:58:04 am
@Phanjam I have no software to deal with 3D models, nor do I have time to get it and learn how to use it. Pretty sure Anarch or Kvazimoda could make better use of those assets.
Oh these models are pretty much ready-to-go into a bow unit .DAT. Just point to the resource folder and the mesh file 8)
Well just let me know if you'd like them ;)
EDIT
Hey i went ahead and posted a link to the downloadable assets over here (http://torchmodders.com/forums/modding-torchlight-mobile/tl-mobile-weapon-models/). Hope it brings smiles to modders and players alike ;)
Title: Re: Skills on weapons
Post by: Sch123 on October 29, 2018, 04:15:59 am
Wow, that's so cool. :o I hope that weapons can be made for TL2. ;)
It would be good if it could have a unique effect on that weapon. :P