Torchmodders
Mod Projects => TL2 Item Patch - Public Board => Topic started by: RnF on August 26, 2014, 04:07:18 pm
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Tired of looking so I figured I would ask here.
Stats are not one of my strong points in TL2. I would like to replace the dexterity bonus of crit damage to a ranged weapons damage bonus (and have the crit% bonus be a affix for weapons only). Where do I even start for this? If I can find the files, I can take it from there. I just don't know where to look.
Thanks.
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Hey RnF,
There's a couple of option for modifying the stats. My preference would be 3, but it's slightly more complicated.
1) You can modify the associated graphs (they should be called 'crit bonus from stat' or somesuch. You could set crit bonus to 0 for all values of dex and then add an affix to a base file that gives a bonus to ranged weapon damage based on dex.
2) You can add an affix to a base file, perhaps the base character file, more likely the base class file, that modifies character stats by an inverse of the bonus, based on that stat.
3) You can redo the stats entirely, starting with the UI. To do this, you would need to take care of a few working parts.
First, you need to create NEW stats that you'll use in place of the old ones.
Second, add affixes to the desired base file (would really, really hope that the player base file would work) that scale with your new stats and deliver your desired bonuses.
Lastly, modify the UI, replacing every instance of the OLD stats with your NEW ones.
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Let's go with option 3 because all the stats need an overhaul anyway.
Do you know of a guide on how to create stats and get them implemented?
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I have been itching to do just this. I could do it if you're willing to have it done in slow-time (i.e. I'll get around to it in about 2 weeks and it'll prolly take me another 2 to do).
If you want it done sooner, feel free to ask any questions. I can guide you through the general steps. I know Kva3imoda has done just this as well.
A note, however: this will completely bj0rk the way item and skill bonuses to the current stats interact with a character (i.e. they'll no longer be relevant). So, fix #3 won't work with a lot of other, existing mods and it would have to be integrated into an item overhaul (like you're doing). However, it would be great as a foundation for future mods.
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With out doing this, doing an item overhaul is a waste of time. I has to be done imo, the stats are the games core. With out stats that make sense, the game will always be broken. If you want to take this on, it would be awesome. I could certainly use the help in this area. But there is no rush, so when it gets done, it gets done. As long as I know what will be changed, I can balance the item overhaul around it.
Here is what I am thinking.
Remove all stat bonuses that have a cap that you get from stats, ie crit%, dodge%, fumble recovery etc. Those values can be obtained pretty easily through affixes from items. Having those built into the stats devalues a lot of possible affixes.
Stats only give 2 bonuses
Strength
1. Change the weapon damage bonus to Melee Weapon Damage + Cannons. Remove Fists from getting this bonus.
2. Increase Critical Hit Damage Bonus
Dexterity
1. Ranged Damage bonus (this is already a stat, it's just not being used) + Fists, Remove Cannons from getting this bonus.
2. ??
Magic
1. Keep Magic Weapon Bonuses
2. Keep Mana bonuses
Vitality
1. Keep HP bonus (maybe tweak graph)
2. Keep AC bonus or transform into a Damage Reduction bonus as you suggested in the idea thread. Can you remove the 75% cap? If we keep the AC bonus, the graph would have to be altered for bigger bonuses.
I am not sure what other stat bonus to give Dexterity. If you have an ideas, plug it in.
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What is dextery grands a bonus to using potions to heal faster, or recude the cooldowns on spells and skills?
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I don't believe there's a way to change the 75% damage reduction cap, we just have to work with it. So, I don't think Vitality should add bonuses to damage reduction. How about either just +hp or +hp AND +hp regen? I also think the +hp bonus should be a little better for Vitality than it is now.
Armor and shields should be the providers of damage reduction. This would also allow us to balance things in a more satisfying manner in other ways as well:
1) Soft cap the maximum damage reduction from armor. No combination of armor should allow one to hit the 75% cap. That would devalue skills that add damage reduction (like the Engineer's Bulwark skill).
2) We can make light, medium and heavy armor significantly different. Heavy armor could have a high strength requirement, meaning it's most useful for melee characters. So, melee characters inherently get better damage reduction. This means we can remove the 25% innate damage reduction on melee characters like the 'zerker and engi. If they want to be tough, they have to spec for it. Light armor can give less protection and require much less Strength, or it could require no stat whatsoever. Medium armor could require a moderate amount of strength, giving rogues and archers a choice between maxing their dex and being total glass cannons or getting a little strength for some added protection.
##Dexterity##
We should keep the secondary bonus of stats meaningful for any character, like Str's bonus to crit damage.
For dex we have one good option:
+Attack/+cast speed. +attack/cast speed bonuses should be somewhat lower than Str's +crit damage, since (for most characters) they're going to add to DPS faster in an environment where you can't get +crit from stats. I feel like all of the other stat possibilities for dex are capped (dodge, crit, fumble, execute), and like you said, should be relegated to item bonuses.
I like Anarch's idea about reducing cooldowns, but that's just too much of a beast to take on. There's no elegant, quick way to do it in GUTS. It'd have to be worked into each and every skill individually.
##Magic##
Are you suggesting we drop bonuses to flat magic damage from this stat? I would rather drop magic weapon damage bonuses. Why? Magic weapon damage bonuses don't affect flat damage spells. Flat magic damage bonuses will affect both flat damage spells and wand/staff damage because wand and staff damage is all elemental. I'm not sure if that would be overpowered compared to Str and Dex.
I'd love to hear from some more people here.
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Oh, that's a shame, I hoped for a cooldown reduction effect to be possible in a easy way...
Well, attack speed and cast speed bonuses are pretty good also. ;)
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gyfunke,
I would rather lose the weapon damage bonus from Magic and keep the flat damage.
For dexterity, there is a degrade armor effect. It might work. Not sure if it's capped, but it isn't a % value, just a flat value.
I am pretty busy tonight, I will respond with more at a later time.
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How about this option for stat changes?
Strength
1. Increases Weapon Damage (All weapons, leave as is)
Dexterity
1. Increases Critical Hit Damage Bonus
Magic
1. Increases Mana
2. Increases Elemental Damage
Vitality
1. Increases HP
2. Increases AC
And then I build the items with these stats in mind.
For example, ranged items would have a stat requirements of
50 Strength
35 Dexterity
This way it allows the player who wants to go ranged to get a damage increase without getting penalized, but they may lose out on HP and AC gains, which they should since they are ranged. But it also allows them to continue to build around Critical Hits and get something good out of it.
Most Melee weapons would get something like this
50 Strength
35 Vitality
Most Magic items would get
50 Magic
35 Vitality (maybe some with dexterity for glass cannon builds)
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I don't terribly like the idea of crit damage bonus for Dex. It doesn't seem like an appropriate primary attribute. If you can't increase crit chance with a stat investment, you're not going to see your critical damage bonus very often early in the game (unless you're a berserker)
Also, what about doing away with dual stat requirements and just going for single ones? E.g. bows require just dex and axes require just strength.
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But that is what affixes on items are for. Moving crit% bonuses away from stats and making players find those stats is a better way to go and makes that affix invaluable for dex builds.
Not sure there are enough dual stats for all the stats that really make sense that don't cap. This is just another idea to try to simply this. I think critical bonus damage makes sense for dexterity.
I don't like the idea of only one stat on an item for requirements. If strength becomes (remains) the only stat that increases weapon damage, it needs to be on all melee/ranged weapons. I was planning on doing away with those types of requirements and making every item have two stat requirements.
Could do the following on ranged weapons, just swap the stats.
50 dex
35 strength
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I kinda got the feeling you were trying to simplify it. I don't actually want dex to give a +crit chance bonus. I still think ASPD instead of +crit damage would be good. Seems just as dex-y and yet scales more evenly. My feeling is that +crit damage scales parabolically. It's going to suck at low levels and be huge at higher levels when you get lots of +crit from items. ASPD isn't dependent on any other variable, so the percentage you see is the percentage you get. It's always going to be DPS = (damage*aspd). Crit damage is DPS = (damage*crit chance*crit damage)/100.
I was thinking do away with the dual stat requirements AND make str modify melee damage and dex modify ranged, the way you had in your original post. My personal ideal stat setup would be really close to your first post:
Str-
+melee damage
+crit damage
Dex-
+ranged damage
+aspd/cspd
Focus-
+elemental damage (not physical like it does now)
+mana
Vit-
+hp
+hp regen
Then, requirements are thus:
Melee+Crossbows/Cannons=Str
Ranged+Claws=Dex
Wands/staves=Focus
Heavy Armor=Str
Light Armor= either less strength or dex instead
Robes= Focus or no req
If you want to simplify it the way you're looking to simplify it, then this is what I would suggest:
Str-
+weapon damage
Dex-
+aspd
Focus-
+elemental damage or +mana
Vit-
+hp
Then it would make sense to have most of the armors and weapons require some amount of STR.
Of course, we can do whatever the heck we want with the stats if we're going to redo the UI and item database. The question at that point is, what's the point? To be continued...
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I like it. Lets plan on what you posted here.
Str-
+melee damage
+crit damage
Dex-
+ranged damage
+aspd/cspd
Focus-
+elemental damage (not physical like it does now)
+mana
Vit-
+hp
+hp regen
Weapons
Melee+Crossbows/Cannons= Str + Vit (can you include crossbows in the Str damage bonus instead of dex? Can you explain what you are thinking including the crossbows here?)
Ranged+Claws= Dex + Vit
Wands/staves= Focus + Vit
Shields = Vit + Str or Vit + Dex or Vit + Foc (have various types of shields for all classes. I can bring TL1 shields over for more variety)
Armor
Heavy Armor= Str + Vit (includes Engineer Sets)
Light Armor= Dex + Vit (includes Outlander Sets)
Robes= Focus + Vit (includes Embermage Sets)
Also with Dex having an attack speed bonus, I suggest we remove that from the affix pool.
Also a thought about stat affix bonuses. Maybe we should do away with a flat bonus and use % based bonuses. ie an affix that spawn +150% to dexterity. That way a player has to have that stat invested to really get the full benefit from it.
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I like the idea of % bonuses to stats. It'll really reward those who invest in the stat.
As for crossbows being STR-based, I was stealing inspiration from Dragon Age. Their xbows are Str-based. It would make the xbow more different from the bow. Right now it just has a longer range and no knockback.
However, thinking about it, it's a bit weird.
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Actually it isn't all that weird. I like the idea and it intrigues me. I was just wondering what your thinking was behind it. It's something to consider for sure. Crossbows are really ho-hum. They need work to differentiate from bows. This would be a start.
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There is a potential issue with this though. If someone put points in Str and Dex they would get a damage bonus from both. It might not work unless you excluded crossbows.
To get around this, you wouldn't use a "Ranged Weapon" unittype on the affix for the damage. You would want to list only the unittypes to get a damage bonus (Bow, Rifle, Pistol, Fist).
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There is a potential issue with this though. If someone put points in Str and Dex they would get a damage bonus from both. It might not work unless you excluded crossbows.
To get around this, you wouldn't use a "Ranged Weapon" unittype on the affix for the damage. You would want to list only the unittypes to get a damage bonus (Bow, Rifle, Pistol, Fist).
You can do that with Affixes? That is so much easier than what I had in mind...
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Yes you can. Affixes are actually really flexible. That is what's to great about them. You could also choose Ranged Weapons as a unittype and put crossbows as a "notunittype" and it should exclude them from the affix. I would just list the items out though, it's easier that way.
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Thinking Fists should utilize Strength and not Dexterity
See this post for reasons (http://torchmodders.com/forums/tl2-item-patch-public-board/berserker-armor-and-claw-stats/)
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Yessir.
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Hey RnF,
Started plinking away at this. Going well. I need your input on a few values.
#How much HP should Vitality provide per point? Currently its 3.6, maybe we could bump it because this is an insignificant value?
#How much HP Regen should Vitality provide? I'm thinking this could be percentage-based with diminishing returns. So maybe 0.05% regen/s per point of Vitality to start, maxing out at ~15-20% per second for an investment of 500 Vitality? With ~1000 health at maybe level 20 you could get your Vitality up to 100, which could give you 4-5%/s, i.e. 40-50 HP per second. Doesn't seem OP, but significant enough. Would really cut down on potion use and make the character more survivable without making them immune to overwhelming damage or large crits.
#How much attack and cast speed should Dexterity provide? I'm thinking 0.15 (15% bonus per 100 stat points, +75% at 500 dex)
#Did you want to modify the values on any of the other stat bonuses? I'm otherwise leaving bonuses the same (0.5% damage bonus from a point of Str/Dex/Focus).
Also, these seem like rather large numbers to achieve, but should I extend the graphs so that players can benefit from adding even more to their stat of choice?
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Another thing:
What would you like to set the following base values at? These are no longer modified by stats as they once were, so we can start them wherever we'd like:
Fumble (currently leaving it at the vanilla value: 21%)
Fumble Recovery (vanilla: 25%)
Dodge (currently 5%)
Block (0%, leave it to the shields to add block?)
Crit Chance (currently 5%)
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Hey RnF,
Started plinking away at this. Going well. I need your input on a few values.
#How much HP should Vitality provide per point? Currently its 3.6, maybe we could bump it because this is an insignificant value?
#How much HP Regen should Vitality provide? I'm thinking this could be percentage-based with diminishing returns. So maybe 0.05% regen/s per point of Vitality to start, maxing out at ~15-20% per second for an investment of 500 Vitality? With ~1000 health at maybe level 20 you could get your Vitality up to 100, which could give you 4-5%/s, i.e. 40-50 HP per second. Doesn't seem OP, but significant enough. Would really cut down on potion use and make the character more survivable without making them immune to overwhelming damage or large crits.
#How much attack and cast speed should Dexterity provide? I'm thinking 0.15 (15% bonus per 100 stat points, +75% at 500 dex)
#Did you want to modify the values on any of the other stat bonuses? I'm otherwise leaving bonuses the same (0.5% damage bonus from a point of Str/Dex/Focus).
Also, these seem like rather large numbers to achieve, but should I extend the graphs so that players can benefit from adding even more to their stat of choice?
I don't think tripling the HP bonus per vitality point is out of the question. That would be approximately 6k HP at 500 points. We could tone it down to 4500. I do plan adding the %HP bonus for affixes. It would be quite useful, and give the player some room to inflate their HP. So maybe starting at double the HP bonus is a good place to start.
I think your HP regen is good.
Same with your attack speed for dex.
All other stats should stay the same.
I think extending the graphs to 750 is a good idea. Could open up some interesting builds.
As far as your next post about base stats, lets leave them alone for the time being.
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Hey RnF,
So, a quirk has arisen in trying to work out the application of the Affix that dictates bonuses derived from player stats.
Characters don't inherit skills, affixes or effects from the base player file. So, to get around this we need to make sure new and old characters alike can get the affix if someone wants to play with the Item Overhaul.
To make it easy for new characters of the base classes I'm adding to the affix to the base class file, which does inherit to the M/F versions of the class.
For older characters I'm thinking I'll add consumable items that can be purchased from general merchants for 0 gold. 'The Red Pill' will allow them to apply the affix that makes them fully compatible with the stat overhaul. 'The Blue Pill' will revert them to Vanilla status.
What say you, RnF?
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I think that is a good solution. It might be the only way from what you are saying.
Having the pills always available from vendors is a good too, like you are saying.
Edit: How does this work for modded players? They have to consume the pill to get the bonus correct?
Having a quest NPC or a chest for the player at the start area is a good way to get the player the pill.
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The pills work the same for modded characters and custom character classes. I just need to hook the Affix to them once and they're golden.
New custom class characters will NOT start with the affix applied and will need to consume a pill. So, yes, including a starting chest in addition to making them for sale at the merchants is a good idea.
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Ok, that is what I thought. Just needed confirmation. I can find a way to get it implimented. Thanks.
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"Take the red pill, and see how deep the rabbit hole goes"
MWAHAHAHA!!!!
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Mmmmm.... hey. It's done.
You can get it here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5_51x6ALcyza0NCOFJ3S1AxYmc/edit?usp=sharing). And so can anyone else if they want to try it out. I will warn y'all that it's not complete without RnF's forthcoming item overhaul, but it could be fun. Certainly makes Veteran more of a challenge.
So, RnF.... here's a little changelog/description of the stat overhaul.
#Mainly, adds the affix overhaul_player_stats_gyt.dat. This affix contains the passive bonuses that we talked about. To adjust the values, just adjust the MIN/MAX values for an effect. No need to play with graphs.
#Overwrites the secondary stat bonus graphs (such as crit chance, dodge chance, execute, etc) so that primary stats (str, dex, etc) no longer give a bonus to these attributes.
#Causes all new vanilla-class characters to come with the overhaul_player_stats_gyt affix.
#Adds The Red Pill and The Blue Pill which are available at all general merchants (using Roalith's spawnclass merge technique)
#Adds a quest NPC to the Vanquisher camp complete with a quest to dole out a Red Pill to new non-vanilla-class characters.
#Changes the UI to remove elements that were broken by overwriting certain graphs and elements that are now nonsensical.
EDIT: The link is fixed and now leads to the correct file.
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Sweet! Can't wait to try it out. Actually can't wait to dig into the files to see how you did it ;)
Thanks!
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Downloaded the file and it looks like you linked the TL1CP folder. I was not able to get the files.
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Ground control to Major Tom... I must have in deep space this morning.
Okay,
STAT OVERHAUL FILES, NOT CLASS PACK FILES (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5_51x6ALcyza0NCOFJ3S1AxYmc/edit?usp=sharing)
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Actually can't wait to dig into the files to see how you did it ;)
Thanks!
It's so simple you're not going to be impressed.
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Heyya @RnF ! For @gytfunke 's Classless Character mod idea, I am exploring the Dragon Age concept of needing certain stat levels to be able to start investing in certain skills/trees. So it occurred to me to ask you...
Do you see this direction you've taken the stats as a "fix" for the base TL2 game? Or were you gonna keep going and come up with like totally new stats and such?
Am asking just so we can keep building from any improvements we come up with... thanks!
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This is funny, Phanjam. I was just thinking the same thing, that using stat requirements for skills (a la Dragon Age) would be a good thing. Also, I'm 99% sure I can pull it off using UI modifications.
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Hey, I did some research and came up with a new attribute system with 6 points per level.
Physical -DMG and -Armor
Elemental -DMG and -Armor
- 100 Armor is equal to 0,01 DR
Strength: Attackspeed, and Resistance to CrowdControll ...
Dexterity: DodgeChance, ArmorPenetration and DMG by Monster Count
Focus: MP, Cast-speed and ElementalEffectDuration
Vitality: HP, DamageReduction and PotionEfficiency
- CritChance and -Damage should be moved to Items! they have to be available to all "builds".
- Staffs need Mana per Second
Spells:
Dual Wielding: FumbleChance and ExecuteChance
Blocking: BlockChance and MissilereflectChance
Add - Two-Handed: FumblePenalty and Spash
Sorcerers Weapons: Wand, Mace, Staffs, Polearm, Cannon
Soldier Weapons: Axe, Swords, Gr.Axe, Gr.Swor, Gr.Hammer
Hunter Weapons: Claw, Pistol, Bow, Shotgonne, XBow
- These Spells should scale into lategame so they could be %based... not sure about max value calculation.
There are 3 item categories to specialize in:
All Armor pieces roll as light/medium/heavy (even magic unique and legendary)
- Heavy Armor and Sword, Mace, Cannon, Gr.Sword, Gr.Hammer require offer Strength
- Medium Armor and Pistol, Axe, Shotgonne, XBow, Gr.Axe require offer Dexterity
- Light Armor and Wand, Claw, Bow, Staff, Polearm require offer Focus
edit: All Armor pieces and Shields highly prioritize Vita as a roll
I'd like to combine these with the "classless" skill system (http://torchmodders.com/forums/classless-character-public-board/) for a bigger "patch" lateron.
any suggestions?
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Vitality: ... PotionEfficiency
This is a good idea.
- CritChance and -Damage should be moved to Items! they have to be available to all "builds".
I agree with that.
- no Vitality as requirement.
Maybe use Vitality for shields? For tank- and summoner-builds?
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Thanks for the reply! Yeah the Vita Stat is somehow difficult. IMO It is a build decision between glass cannon and tank. Both should be viable and available for all classes. High vita rolls should have low crit rolls and the other way around.
My idea of attributes is that they are classless. By stacking them you mainly choose your preferred play style, not a damage type or skills.
So I'd love to see improved attributes on gear instead of requirements. Highest vita rolls on shields, yeah! I'm gonna rethink my other categories... ::)
Cheerioh
lolesch
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Hey @gytfunke, have to dig this up once again...
Mmmmm.... hey. It's done.
I finally got the magic within your overhaul ;)
To use static stats I have to recreate them as dynamic with predefined_int right?
It took me age to realize I just have to use your method - this is where the UI logic is capped ;D since I tried changing widgets and so on. But this way I can just use all the hard code mechanics...
So much easier! thanks for the work! definitely gonna use it
could it be that the mod isn't cleaned up 100%? there are still some #test... graphs and do I need the #player_attribute stats or just the #character_attribute stats the Affix is referring to?
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Ground control to Major Tom... I must have in deep space this morning.
STAT OVERHAUL FILES, NOT CLASS PACK FILES (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5_51x6ALcyza0NCOFJ3S1AxYmc/edit?usp=sharing)
Hey @gytfunke, and everyone using these files, I figured out you missed one graph overhaul, the crit_bonus. when you replace strength your crit damage will still increase by 0.4 per point spent.
[LINE]
<STRING>NAME:CRIT_BONUS
<BOOL>CURVED:false
<STRING>DATATYPE:LINE
[POINT]
<FLOAT>X:0
<FLOAT>Y:0
[/POINT]
[/LINE]
this graph will fix it
thanks again for the work!