Torchmodders

Modding => 3D Modelling & Animation => Topic started by: gytfunke on August 23, 2014, 09:07:58 am


Title: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: gytfunke on August 23, 2014, 09:07:58 am
Hi there,

So, for the TL1 CP's Vanquisher class I'm trying to make a passable port of the Hamstring skill.  I've run into a problem and would love it if someone with modeling/animation expertise could help me out.  I know 0 about modeling and animation.

I need one of the following 2 solutions to make the skill work REALLY WELL:

1 - Animation Change  (preferred solution)

I would need someone to modify the TL1 Vanquisher's Special_Dash and Special_Dash_Start animations so that the TL2 Human models can use it (both male and female).  I have no idea, but would love to think this just requires removing the Vanq's superfluous bones (skirt and ponytail, namely) and then running it through CCCenturion's converter.


2 - Model Port

Second solution is to use the TL1 Vanq model as a 'shapeshift' for the Hamstring skill.  This is what I'm trying right now, but....

The model has no texture.  I don't know how to fix this as I can't even figure out how to load the model into Blender.  I imagine giving it a fixed texture rather than a wardrobe would be the answer, but I don't know how hard that is.



If anyone can help, I would be forever grateful!   ;)
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Phanjam on August 23, 2014, 09:43:44 am
The model has no texture.  I don't know how to fix this as I can't even figure out how to load the model into Blender.  I imagine giving it a fixed texture rather than a wardrobe would be the answer, but I don't know how hard that is.

Hi gytfunke! I imagine you'd want to handle the texturing for this the same way as the Destro's "shadow" skills...

Spoiler (hover to show)

As you can see it's a texture which achieves a "ghosting" effect. And you won't need to do anything in Blender to achieve this :P

I think I can reverse-engineer how this ghost unit is set up texture-wise. Will give it a shot and report back...
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Wolven on August 23, 2014, 10:08:12 am
How about something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLZh5QKf6_E&feature=youtu.be

I've tweaked the Savage Rush (werewolf_dash) animation, so the mesh is does not get hidden, and then just removed the particles (I missed the particle for the start animation, but you get the idea.) You could easily add a trail to this, so it looks like the hamstring skill.
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Phanjam on August 23, 2014, 11:04:13 am
IMO that looks better than what could be accomplished by using TL1 models (which could look "forced") AND it gives you both male and female anims which look consistent with each other and the game.
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: gytfunke on August 23, 2014, 01:22:41 pm
Yeah, werewolf_dash looks approximately right.  It could be good enough, especially for what we can accomplish right now.  I just wish the arms weren't tucked in.
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Wolven on August 23, 2014, 01:42:19 pm
Other than being able to create custom animations, I can't see any other option. At least not with the available animations in TL2. It might be possible to alter the angle/position of the arms by editing the skeleton file by hand. I've never tried, but isn't this something Kva3imoda has been experimenting with?

Anyway, the werewolf_run animation with particle effects it can look pretty good I think. Perhaps if we added some more particles effects, to give some extra flair, it would look fresh and appropriate.
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: gytfunke on August 23, 2014, 02:17:27 pm
I've been trying to figure out how to alter animations, but I can't even figure out how to load a TL2 model into 3ds Max.  I might be able to get my friend to show me how to use it sometime...
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Anarch16sync on August 25, 2014, 06:48:37 pm
Hey Guys, I tried my hand at modifying the werewolf_run animation for the male model and this is what It came to be...
Spoiler (hover to show)
Try it an tell me what you think, I should work well with the werewolf_run_start and end, if you put some particles to mask the animation change.

Special_dash.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/download/8om89958stpw1wt/Special_dash.rar)
(The file has the skeleton and the skeleton.xml files)

Know I'm gonna try doing the one for the female model  8)

Edit:

Finished the animation for the female character, this one looks like the original  :D

Spoiler (hover to show)

Hum_f_special_Dash.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/download/syb4mnm82cs5aam/Hum_F_special_dash.rar)
(Just like before, .skeleton + .xml)

Hope this is useful  8)
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: RnF on August 25, 2014, 09:53:51 pm
Hi, Anarch

I really like what you have done and think it's a great alternative... I actually like it more than the original animation.  The Vanquisher animation always looked kind of frail to me.  This looks "tougher".

Nice work. 

Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Anarch16sync on August 25, 2014, 10:06:04 pm
Thanks RnF, for the female model I will make it more like the original animation...
This one took to much effort, and didn't come out as good as I wanted, but for being the first one I ever made I'll let it be.  :D
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: gytfunke on August 26, 2014, 08:09:32 am
Anarch, these are GREAT!

Thanks!
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Wolven on August 26, 2014, 08:37:16 am
Great work Anarch.

I asked you before if you wanted dev privileges here, but you declined. Well now you have it anyway.  ;)
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Anarch16sync on August 26, 2014, 08:46:50 am
Hehe Thanks guys, I'm just trying to help where I can  ;D

Oh well, wolven, With great power comes great responsibility, no use declining now  :D
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Phanjam on August 26, 2014, 08:47:11 am
Fantastic work Anarch! Did you do this in 3DSMax or Blender?
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Anarch16sync on August 26, 2014, 08:56:40 am
I used 3DSmax 2009, and the files from the runic assets, working over those is pretty easy since the models are totally rigged and you have all the animations in .max and .bip formats.

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Wolven on August 26, 2014, 09:04:28 am
I used 3DSmax 2009, and the files from the runic assets, working over those is pretty easy since the models are totally rigged and you have all the animations in .max and .bip formats.

Do you know if it's possible to export those animations over to a format which Blender can import? Using 3DSmax is not an option for everyone, and right now there's no way to import the .skeleton files in Blender.
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Anarch16sync on August 26, 2014, 09:11:13 am
Well, I had look that up sometime ago, but couldn't find a way to do it, tried all the formats I could export from 3DSmax to blender, but none of them work.  :'(

Spoiler (hover to show)

Edit: I find something right now, gonna install it and see if I can make it work.

Edit2: Well... I can't get blender to import the scene, and the script is two years old, so the autor isn't active anymore, I will try to make it work but in any case, does someone knows anything about python scripts for blender?
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: gytfunke on August 26, 2014, 04:40:50 pm
Hey Anarch,

I added your animations to the Hamstring skill and they look lovely in-game!
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Anarch16sync on August 26, 2014, 05:36:35 pm
Oh that's great, I can't wait to see how they look with the full particles added  :)
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: RnF on August 26, 2014, 06:51:32 pm
Can't wait to see them in action too.  That skill has been a thorn in my side, I just didn't have the expertise to fix it.  Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: gytfunke on August 26, 2014, 10:39:42 pm
Neither did I (at least, not satisfactorily).  Go team Ventu... er... Torchmodders!
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Wolven on August 27, 2014, 02:13:30 am
Well, I had look that up sometime ago, but couldn't find a way to do it, tried all the formats I could export from 3DSmax to blender, but none of them work.  :'(

Perhaps there's some useful information here: http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/small-tut-from-3d-max-to-fbx-to-milkskape-to-blender-to-unity-steps.122986/
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Anarch16sync on August 27, 2014, 11:44:11 am
Oh That's great info, gonna try it when I'm home.
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Phanjam on August 30, 2014, 03:05:06 am
...does someone knows anything about python scripts for blender?

I know Dusho did a lot of work on I/O scripts for Blender. You might try contacting him (http://forums.runicgames.com/ucp.php?i=pm&mode=compose&u=857).

I invited him to join this site too :P
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Kva3imoda on November 30, 2014, 06:14:02 am
Hey Anarch16sync!

Your animations looks great. :) I see you know how to work in 3DSmax and I have a question. Is there an easy way to mirror animations (right to left orientation) with 3DSmax tool?
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Anarch16sync on November 30, 2014, 07:40:19 am
Hey Kva3imoda, It's been a while since I fooled around with animations on 3DSmax, but what do you mean by mirror an animation?
 Something like if you have an L_attack animation, and you want to mirror the movements to make it an R_attack?
Or to make an animation that goes from the fram A to the frame B, and then from B to A?

If you want to do the later, you can copy a frame key by moving it while pressing shift, or ctrl... don't remember exactly which one. That would be the manual way to do it, there is also a reverse function but I don't know who that works :/
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Kva3imoda on November 30, 2014, 07:55:31 am
Something like if you have an L_attack animation, and you want to mirror the movements to make it an R_attack?
Yes, it is.  :)
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Kva3imoda on November 30, 2014, 08:02:58 am
Or to make an animation that goes from the fram A to the frame B, and then from B to A?
This variant is what I call "Reverse". I tried to do it today and it works fine.  ;D It's pretty simple.
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Anarch16sync on November 30, 2014, 08:20:43 am
Oh well, then I really don't know how, my 3DSmax knowlegde is even less than basic, I learn things as I need them, and since I haven't really put time to the animations there is a lot I don't know.

But, and this is a big butt, a google search has given a fair amount of interesting results, that unfortunately I cannot test right now.

For example:
https://cnbctr.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/mirror-biped-animation-in-autodesk-3ds-max/ (https://cnbctr.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/mirror-biped-animation-in-autodesk-3ds-max/)
Quote
Mirror Biped Animation in Autodesk 3ds Max
[...]
Here is the way to do it.

First of all select com of your biped or any bone of your biped.
Go to Motion panel.
Under Track Selection roll out select body vertical. De-select Figure mode if it is active.
Under Keyframing Tools roll out select Mirror. It is sometimes just mirror body pose but if you change selection to body vertical and body horizantel again you can make animation mirrored.

Or something more complicated...

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8098077/how-to-rotate-mirror-a-3d-animation (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8098077/how-to-rotate-mirror-a-3d-animation)
Quote
Create a dummy aligned to the root of your model. Link the root of the model to that dummy. With only the dummy selected, click the mirror button on the maintoolbar.

This will create a mirror image of the bones along with the animation on those bones. The only caveat is the names of the bones will also be mirrored. eg. the arm called 'right_arm' is now now on the left side.

If you need to preserve the animations to the original bones, look into using the animation mixer. This allows loading and saving animations onto characters. But it also has object mapping feature that allows objects of different names to load on saved animations.

So create a mapping. Save the mirrored animation. And load it back onto the original bones with that mapping.

Of course, I have no clue what the half of this means  :'(  but I hope is usefull.
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Kva3imoda on November 30, 2014, 03:04:17 pm
but I hope is usefull.
:) Thanks Anarch16sync, it's really helpful. As I see, it is possible and it sounds as I expected. The only problem is that I can`t work in 3DSmax.  :D
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Kva3imoda on December 05, 2014, 07:51:46 pm
There is a way to use reverse animation in the *.animation file? Something like <FLOAT>SPEED:-1 or <BOOL>REVERSE:true?
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Phanjam on December 05, 2014, 10:14:10 pm
Hi Kva!

I tried it just now; cloned attack1 to attack1_rev and added it to hum_m.animation, first with <FLOAT>SPEED:-1, and then with <BOOL>REVERSE:true.

At least in Dusho's Mesh Viewer, it didn't work :(

Will try later in GUTS...
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Kva3imoda on December 06, 2014, 06:44:29 pm
At least in Dusho's Mesh Viewer, it didn't work :(
Yeah, this file works only in the game / GUTS.

Does anyone know complete list of tags that can be used in this *.animation file? Maybe some hidden features?

I experimented a bit with this, there is a lot of potential. For example, you can make different types of death - cut off a head or a leg.
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Phanjam on December 07, 2014, 07:30:16 am
I experimented a bit with this, there is a lot of potential. For example, you can make different types of death - cut off a head or a leg.
Wow! That sounds like lots of fun! But not for the guys losing their heads :P
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Kva3imoda on December 15, 2014, 03:35:44 pm
Well, if a simple method does not work, I'll talk about a more difficult method. A boring method!  :)

Firstly, we need to convert а *.skeleton file using OgreXmlConverter.

Then, using Notepad++ change timing. For example:
The original animation DIE1.SKELETON.xml

We have the following frames for each bone:
Spoiler (hover to show)

<keyframe time="0">
<keyframe time="0.0666667">
<keyframe time="0.1">
<keyframe time="0.133333">
...
...
<keyframe time="1.56667">
<keyframe time="1.93333">
<keyframe time="2">

Change the name of the animation:
<animation name="Die1" length="2">  -->
<animation name="Envi_alert1_dead" length="2">
and save your file as:
ENVI_ALERT1_DEAD.SKELETON.xml

Now we need to do an automatic replacement. Open both files(original DIE1 and new ENVI_ALERT1_DEAD) for easy operation (copy / paste).

Note: We must act carefully - it is better to use a string replacement.

Step1.
The first automatic all-replacement:

<keyframe time=" --> <keyframe time="9

All our frames have changed:

<keyframe time="0"> --> <keyframe time="90">
<keyframe time="0.0666667"> --> <keyframe time="90.0666667">
...
...
<keyframe time="1.93333"> --> <keyframe time="91.93333">
<keyframe time="2"> --> <keyframe time="92">

This is necessary to avoid errors in a future replacement.  :)

Step2.
Replace timings Conversely, step by step:
<keyframe time="90"> --> <keyframe time="2">
<keyframe time="90.0666667"> --> <keyframe time="1.93333">
...
...
<keyframe time="91.93333"> --> <keyframe time="0.0666667">
<keyframe time="92"> --> <keyframe time="0">

If done correctly, you should get the following:
Spoiler (hover to show)

<keyframe time="2">
<keyframe time="1.93333">
<keyframe time="1.56667">
...
...
<keyframe time="0.133333">
<keyframe time="0.1">
<keyframe time="0.0666667">
<keyframe time="0">

Save your file and convert it using OgreXmlConverter.
If you've done everything correctly, you should get a new reverse animation ENVI_ALERT1_DEAD.SKELETON and now you understand why I was looking for an easier way.  :D
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Phanjam on December 19, 2014, 02:54:07 am
LOL! I see you just could not leave it alone Kva!  :D

Well congratulations on completing a 100% manual keyframes timing change! I take my hat off to you!

Darn! Now you have got me thinking this method could also be used to take only certain keyframes from an animation, to be used as a new animation.

Does the keyframe timing somehow correspond to the "frames" counter in OGRE mesh viewer?
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Kva3imoda on December 19, 2014, 04:12:38 pm
Darn! Now you have got me thinking this method could also be used to take only certain keyframes from an animation, to be used as a new animation.
It is possible, I have used it before for my new animations (Gatling, Peacemaker).
Does the keyframe timing somehow correspond to the "frames" counter in OGRE mesh viewer?
Yes, but not directly. Animation contains key points - "keyframes" - these points given path of each bone over time.  :)
Animation is connected with the frame rate - 30fps. Your animation with a length 2sec can have 2 keyframes, but there are 60 frames in OGRE mesh viewer.
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Phanjam on December 20, 2014, 03:17:03 am
Quote from: Kva3imoda
It is possible, I have used it before for my new animations (Gatling, Peacemaker).

Thanks Kva!  I went through your thread about the Gatling Guns and I found your customized animation (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwZNatjl1ZmpSVJUcy1yMFBmS1k/edit?pli=1).  So how did you know which keyframes to keep and which ones to remove?

I want to use the same method to make a custom animation for a new Destro skill.  I would like to use DAG_DW3.SKELETON but change it like this...

Spoiler (hover to show)

Can you give me some tips pls from how you made your gatling animation? ;)
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Phanjam on December 20, 2014, 08:35:39 am
Haha!  I've done it! :D I made 3 new animations from the DAG_DW3.SKELETON file!

It took a lot of trial-and-error to find the right keyframes on which to start and stop each animation, but I finally got it 8)

SPECIAL_INVINCIBILITY_START - uses the first one-third of DAG_DW3

SPECIAL_INVINCIBILITY_LOOP - well, it's just a steady 1-frame animation.  I first tried to go for a "vibrating/pulsing" effect, but couldn't get it to look right.  So I abandoned that.

SPECIAL_INVINCIBILITY_END - uses the last two-thirds of DAG_DW3

Now to get it into the skill so I can see if it looks right...
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Kva3imoda on December 20, 2014, 05:35:19 pm
Haha!  I've done it! :D
Congrats!  ;) It's not as difficult as it seems.
It took a lot of trial-and-error to find the right keyframes on which to start and stop each animation, but I finally got it 8)
Well, you can try to use some kind of "a keyframe label".
For example, use this bone:
<track bone="Bip01">

Find a potential keyframe:
<keyframe time="1.33333">
<translate x="-0.0335578" y="0" z="0.0549122" />

mark it:
<keyframe time="1.33333">
<translate x="-0.0335578" y="0" z="2.0549122" />

After that, you can see this keyframe:
(http://i.imgur.com/z9PPXIk.jpg)
Title: Re: [Help] Hamstring Model/Animation Request
Post by: Phanjam on December 20, 2014, 09:04:50 pm
Thanks Kva! Yes its not difficult, just tedious because it has to be done track by track.  But I also learned that the keyframes for all tracks have the same time-stamp.  So when youve found the right keyframe for one track, its the same for all :)  Also makes it easier for the renumbering.

Thanks too for the labeling tip!  Thats a neat trick ;) I'll use it the next time i do something like this.