Torchmodders

Mod Projects => Kva3imoda's Playground => Topic started by: Kva3imoda on April 21, 2015, 05:38:43 pm

Title: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on April 21, 2015, 05:38:43 pm

Let's talk about crafting.  :)

I found an interesting article about crafting: 5 Approaches to Crafting Systems in Games (and Where to Use Them) (http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/5-approaches-to-crafting-systems-in-games-and-where-to-use-them--cms-22628)

Well, as we can see, systems may be different, with its own advantages and disadvantages and need to decide what we need.

In the beginning it is necessary to decide how serious should be crafting. Whether it is a mandatory part of the game or additional features?

In my mod the character will be alone most of the time - it must survive in the harsh and dangerous world . Find Merchants and NPCs will be difficult. Therefore, it is necessary give the player the ability to solve problems on their own.

I plan to use a hybrid of several systems, Type 1 - Basic System, 2 and 3 - Additional systems.
 
The Loot.

In vanilla you can sell everything, but in "DP" this will be a problem. To solve this problem, I plan to add the "Salvaging" - you can "disassemble" items and turn them into compact materials. This will save space and allow to accumulate "wealth" without merchants.

I have long thought that it is necessary to add and how it should work. Crafting should be clear, simple and convenient.
Weapons and armor can be disassembled into 7 types of materials: Steel, Brass, Gold, Leather, Fabric, Wood and Gems. Perhaps it is too complicated, but I followed the logic.  :) Each material will be divided into two types - "weak"(scrap, shreds, shards) and "strong"(ignots, pieces). Possible(with special tools) to turn "weak" materials into "strong" and vice versa.

You can get the following(with proportions):

Weapons

2h Swords - 2 Steel Scraps (100%)
2h Axes - 1 Steel Scraps (100%) + 1 Wood Flinders(100%)
2h Hammers - 1 Steel Scraps (100%) + 1 Steel Scraps /Wood Flinders(50/50%)
Spears - 1 Wood Flinders(100%) + 1 Steel Scraps /Wood Flinders(50/50%)

1h Swords - 1 Steel Scraps (100%)
1h Axes - 1 Steel Scraps /Wood Flinders(50/50%)
1h Hammers - 1 Steel Scraps /Wood Flinders(75/25%)
Fists - 1 Steel Scraps (100%)

Bows - 2 Wood Flinders(100%)
Сrossbows - 1 Steel Scraps (100%) + 1 Wood Flinders(100%)

Cannons - 1 Steel Scraps (100%) + 1 Steel Scraps /Brass Scraps(75/25%)
Rifles - 1 Steel Scraps (100%) + Brass Scraps(100%)
Pistols - 1 Steel Scraps/Brass Scraps(50/50%)

Staves - 1 Wood Flinders(100%) + Gems Specks (100%)
Wands - 1 Wood Flinders/Gems Specks (50%/50%)

Armors

Heavy Armor - 2 Steel Scraps (100%) + 1 Leather Shreds (100%)
Medium Armor - 1 Steel Scraps (100%) + 2 Leather Shreds (100%)
Light Armor - 1 Leather Shreds (100%) + 2 Fabric Shreds (100%)

Heavy Helmet - 1 Steel Scraps (100%) + 1 Steel Scraps/Leather Shreds (50%/50%)
Medium Helmet - 1 Steel Scraps/Leather Shreds (50%/50%) + 1 Leather Shreds (100%)
Light Helmet - 1 Leather Shreds/Fabric Shreds (50%/50%) + 1 Fabric Shreds (100%)

Shield - 2 Steel Scraps (100%) + 1 Steel Scraps/Leather Shreds (50%/50%)

Amulet - 2 Gems Specks (100%)
Ring - 1 Gems Specks (100%)

Moreover you get "Junk" after each disassembly.

Yes, it's not a perfect system, because armors/weapons can have several components, but I do not want to complicate this.

As you can see - Steel Scraps - the most common component. I want to use it as a main component for crafting the Vitalyser.

Golden Scrap you can get after disassembly Unique Items and Artefacts. This is a rare and expensive material.

For crafting items I use the same system, but it should require more materials.
Some armor / weapons require other materials - Bones, Scales, Claws, Blood. For crafting Unique Items may require a Unique Ingredient/Artefact.

But there is a problem - how to separate Recipes if they require the same materials?
You know how  Transmuter works - you can`t select a specific recipe, you just put materials and it makes everything that can be done.
So, we need some "Ingredients- separator". This can be done in several ways, but I do not have a final version.

1. Item Schemes
The easiest way - to add Item Schemes (Sword Scheme, Axe scheme, etc.)
Then crafting could look like this:
Sword Scheme #1 + 20 Steel Scraps = 1 Sword #1 + 10 Steel Scraps
Sword Scheme #2 + 10 Steel Scraps = 1 Sword #2
Hammer Scheme #1 + 20 Steel Scraps = 1 Hammer #1 + 5 Steel Scraps
Armor Scheme #1 + 20 Steel Scraps = Heavy Armor #1

But I do not like this variant, because you need a lot of space for these Item Schemes(to create 10 different swords we need 10 different schemes). Also, you need take these schemes somewhere  - buy, find or make yourself.

2. Type Tier Schemes.
In this variant we have Type Tier Schemes - Armor Scheme Tier1, Weapon Scheme Tier2, Jewelry Scheme Tier8, Shield Scheme Tier2.
Then crafting could look like this:
Weapon Scheme Tier1 + 20 Steel Scraps = 1 Sword Tier 1
Weapon Scheme Tier1 + 15 Steel Scraps + 5 Wood Flinders = 1 Hammer Tier 1
Armor Scheme Tier1 + 20 Steel Scraps = 1 Heavy Armor Tier 1
Armor Scheme Tier2 + 20 Steel Scraps = 1 Heavy Armor Tier 2

In this case, we have much smaller quantity of Schemes, but it's still a lot of them. (4 Types*10Tiers = 40 Type Tier Schemes)


3. Type Schemes + Special Tier Ingredient / Tool
In this variant we have Type Schemes - Armor Scheme, Weapon Scheme, Jewelry Scheme, Shield Scheme + Tier Ingredient / Tool
Then crafting could look like this:
Weapon Scheme + 20 Steel Scraps + Сatalyst/Tool Tier1 = 1 Sword Tier 1
Weapon Scheme + 15 Steel Scraps + 5 Wood Flinders + Сatalyst/Tool Tier1 = 1 Hammer Tier 1
Armor Scheme + 20 Steel Scraps + Сatalyst/Tool Tier1 = 1 Heavy Armor Tier 1
Armor Scheme + 20 Steel Scraps + Сatalyst/Tool Tier2 = 1 Heavy Armor Tier 2

In this variant we need additional material, but as a result we have smaller quantity of items: 4 Type Schemes + 10 Tier Ingredient / Tool = 14 Items in Total

4. Item + Special Tier Ingredient / Tool
You use Item as a Scheme (Preform).
Sword + 20 Steel Scraps + Сatalyst/Tool Tier1 = 1 Sword Tier 1
Armor + 20 Steel Scraps + Сatalyst/Tool Tier2 = 1 Heavy Armor Tier 2

Yes, it looks comfortable but there are drawbacks. If you have Item why you need to craft a similar? This should be an upgrade or creation of New Items?

to be continued...

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "DP" Crafting System
Post by: Phanjam on April 22, 2015, 08:41:45 am

Hey Kva!  First, "thank you" for referencing that article! It was a great discussion of crafting concepts and their mechanics.

I have a thought about crafting - not so much "how" it can be done, but just thinking if you build Crafting into a game, then the Loot Drop system of the game has to be adjusted too, so that crafting becomes a more important way to get good gear.

In TL2 for example, the frequency of good-quality loot is fairly high.  It would have to be lowered a lot, to make crafting attractive.

Just some thoughts... ;)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "DP" Crafting System
Post by: Haxley on April 22, 2015, 07:48:26 pm

In my mod [which includes an intensive crafting system] I have made crafted weapons and their upgraded tiers/etc more powerful ["powerful" is left to the readers discretion] by ~15% and have varying effects and procs that are not available elsewhere in the game. I also have new weapon types that are available only through crafting.

That being said, there are many different types of 'rewards' you can implement for crafting, but I recommend leaving the regular game intact if you don't plan on doing what Kva is [building a mod that's not based on towns and central NPC areas] as it gives you a solid 'sea level' to build around.

Last thoughts:

If you make crafting too much of a main-system, i.e., you HAVE to craft, you will lose the players who find it too tedious or just not what they signed on for. If you make it too passive, no one will be interested enough to invest their time in it. As much as people enjoy playing, no one enjoys playing and investing time without being rewarded for their hard spent time [playing your mod no less].

Just some food for thought ^^; Hope it helps out in some way :D

~Haxley

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "DP" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on April 23, 2015, 02:24:01 pm

Thank you guys for your comments.  :)

Quote from: Phanjam on April 22, 2015, 08:41:45 am

Loot Drop system of the game has to be adjusted too

Yes, I want to completely change the loot system.

Quote from: Haxley on April 22, 2015, 07:48:26 pm

If you make crafting too much of a main-system, i.e., you HAVE to craft, you will lose the players who find it too tedious or just not what they signed on for. If you make it too passive, no one will be interested enough to invest their time in it. As much as people enjoy playing, no one enjoys playing and investing time without being rewarded for their hard spent time [playing your mod no less].

I agree with this, so I want to make it simple and clear.
Crafting should be important, but not a mandatory part of the gameplay.
About rewards and motivations:
- all necessary equipments (armor, weapons) can be found
- crafting is very important for consumables (potions, Vitalayser) - is a mandatory part
- crafting will provide some special stuff (real unique equipment, special pets, etc)

Rewards
For example:
1. Bones allow to make Bone Armor with special properties.
But you can ignore it if you do not want this armor.

2. You can craft a Special/Mechanical Pet(a special pet like Mimic, or Copter, or Turrets, or Golems, etc).
You can ignore it if you do not want this pets.

3. You can craft an additional/extended chest for the loot.
You can ignore it if you do not want this stuff.

This should work something like this.  :)

In addition, you can not get loot illogical way.  8) If you kill a wolf - you never get an axe or a helmet.(TQ style) If you kill a skeleton with a sword - you get a rusty sword and maybe ring + bones.
Accordingly find necessary weapons will be difficult, then you can fix it by using crafting.

motivation
Well, suppose, in the beginning I'll give you two coolest recipe?  :) "Manswatter" & "Pet Tormentor" - you can get them, if you find necessary ingredients. You want this stuff or not? You can ignore it or create it.
I have already shown, Combiner possible upgrade:

Spoiler (hover to show)

(http://i.imgur.com/85TAzT2.jpg)

More complex recipes require more ingredients.  Powerful recipes require 4-6 ingredient, and at the beginning you can not create it. You need to find a way how to make it.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "DP" Crafting System
Post by: Vkoslak on April 23, 2015, 03:59:59 pm

"DP"...

Are you sure you want to call it that?

Don't image search "dp" at work.

Unless this is an intentional pun, in that case, carry on.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "DP" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on April 23, 2015, 06:41:32 pm

Quote from: Vkoslak on April 23, 2015, 03:59:59 pm

"DP"...

Are you sure you want to call it that?

:D Don`t Panic, it's just "Dark Palace (http://forums.runicgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=59231&hilit=Dark+Palace)". Well, I could call this "Deep Purple", "Divine Power", "Push and Drop", "Dominate and Play", "Distress and Pain", "Delight and Pleasure", "Drill & Pick" or "Destruction and Punishment", it is not so important, it's just a concept name.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "DP" Crafting System
Post by: Vkoslak on April 23, 2015, 07:23:36 pm

I used to work at a place where we had "Deployment Packages".

I had to try real hard not to laugh every time someone complained about how many DP's they had to do, and how exhausted they were because of it. Part of my brain refuses to grow up   :D

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "DP" Crafting System
Post by: gytfunke on April 23, 2015, 10:08:47 pm

'Destruction and Punishment'... your next TL2 fanfic novel?

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "DP" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on April 24, 2015, 12:29:30 am

Quote from: gytfunke on April 23, 2015, 10:08:47 pm

'Destruction and Punishment'... your next TL2 fanfic novel?

Yes, something from classics would be nice. But, I'd rather write a story about my mod creation - "Distress and Pain".  :D

And we digress from the topic.  :)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "DP" Crafting System
Post by: Phanjam on April 24, 2015, 04:43:22 am

I was just WAITING for someone to bring up this angle  :D

Yup, never grow up!

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "DP" Crafting System
Post by: Anarch16sync on April 24, 2015, 06:57:15 am

 

Quote from: Kva3imoda on April 23, 2015, 06:41:32 pm

Quote from: Vkoslak on April 23, 2015, 03:59:59 pm

"DP"...

Are you sure you want to call it that?

"Push and Drop", "Dominate and Play", "Distress and Pain", "Delight and Pleasure", "Drill & Pick" or "Destruction and Punishment"

  :( Now thanks to Vkoslak... all of this names make me think of DP...   :-\

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "DP" Crafting System
Post by: Phanjam on April 24, 2015, 10:19:55 am

Kva if its okay with u i think i will refer to your mod as TDP for "The Dark Palace" just to clean up my own mind :)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on April 24, 2015, 02:48:59 pm

Okay, guys. I renamed the topic and now we can discuss the craft.  :)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on April 24, 2015, 06:38:05 pm

Icons for Salvaging.

(http://i.imgur.com/gsqObkO.png)

Combiner Summon Items, Vitalayser, Tools
Steel, Brass, Gold, Gems
Wood, Leather, Fabric, Junk

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Anarch16sync on April 24, 2015, 07:42:09 pm

Oooh great icons Kva  :D

Well, just in case you're interested in a bit of the math of combinations I recomend taking a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination)
(maybe it will be easier for you if you search for it in your native lenguage since is not really easy to understand in a non-native lenguage.)

This gives an easy way to calculate how many possible items you could craft with a set of ingridents, I link the full article since it has the formula for the no-repetition combiantions and the combinations with repetition.
To make an example of what is useful of this...
Once upon a time I was trying to make a 3 ingridients combination avalible so the result determines the type of pet the player would be given by using this ingredients in recipes of 3 components.

So, I had three ingrients (n) and my recipe would use 3 ingridients (k), so the number of possible result would be:
 (n + k - 1)! / (k! * (n - 1)! )
using my numbers this becomes
 (3 + 3 - 1)! / (3! * (3 - 1)! )= 5!/(3!*2!)= 10

If I made the recipe use 2 ingredients (now k=2).
(3 + 2 - 1)! / (2! * (3 - 1)! )= 4!/(2!*2!)=  6

So I would need to create 16 units and 16 recipes to have all the possible combinations of this 3 items, in groups of 3 and groups of 2... and that looked like a lot to me in that moment, so I put the idea down. But well, this is an example of how to account for the number of possible recipes you could make.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Phanjam on April 24, 2015, 09:52:50 pm

Fantastic icon work Kva!

After reading Anarch's post (thanks Anarch) I think I want to say that fewer ingredients is better, will be less confusing players (or just for me?). I was able to play-test Haxley's crafting system just a little, but I was easily confused :( I think lots of documentation is a must for any crafting system.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Quote from: Kva3imoda

Okay, guys. I renamed the topic and now we can discuss the craft.  :)

Sorry for me acting so juvenile Kva!

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Anarch16sync on April 25, 2015, 06:10:27 am

Well, that depends, you can have a lot of ingredients and don't use all possible combinations, or make a number a combinations a failure, kind of like the way you make potions in The Witcher 1 videogame, there are a lot of ingredients there and the recipes can have up to 6 ingridients, but there are only like twenty potions max.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on April 25, 2015, 07:10:56 pm

Thank you Anarch. I looked at the link. But I'm not sure that all combinations will work in the game. I do not understand how it works in general, we need tests.

For example:
Item1 = 1*Igredient#1 + 2*Igredient#2
Item1 = 2*Igredient#1 + 3*Igredient#2

If I put 1*Igredient#1 + 2*Igredient#2, I get the Item1 - it's clear.
But if I put 2*Igredient#1 + 3*Igredient#2, which item do I get? Item1 or Item2?
Suppose I put 50*Igredient#1 + 100*Igredient#2, and what happens in this case?
I believe that there is some priority, but tests are needed to understand how it works.

Quote from: Phanjam on April 24, 2015, 09:52:50 pm

I think I want to say that fewer ingredients is better, will be less confusing players

Yes, a lot of ingredients - it's bad. But there is no other option.
How many ingredients uses the original games?
TL1 ~ 100
TL2 ~ 19
TL1 has x5 more ingredients than TL2. But was the crafting more complex? Nope, because there is a clear system - weak items turn into a more powerful (gems, potions etc).
Therefore, if we create a clear and simple system, it will not be difficult.

The main problem for me - how to store these ingredients?  :)
How to sort and find the necessary ingredient?

For this purpose I created several tabs. One of them, specifically for the ingredients.

(http://i.imgur.com/pzhxhp0.png)

Note: I think the amount of items should be moved to the top right corner.

Equipment
Consumables
Spells
*These are standard tabs

Ingredients - only for the ingredients.

Miscellaneous - for special useful and important items. (tools, instruments, summon items(for pets, stash, the Combiner), parts for upgrade)

Artefacts - treasures and "strange" items. These items are very important part of the gameplay. These items are designed for "hunting".
"Treasures" - various trophies (crowns, cups, etc.) - you can sell it if you find a merchant.
"Artefacts" - mandatory unique ingredients for crafting unique items. (Suppose: Dragon Heart, Mechanical Сore, Damned Anchor etc.)
"Unusual Items" - items allow to obtain extraordinary results(as "Pandora's Box") - various events - dangers, portals, unique creatures.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Anarch16sync on April 26, 2015, 07:30:16 am

Quote from: Kva3imoda on April 25, 2015, 07:10:56 pm

Thank you Anarch. I looked at the link. But I'm not sure that all combinations will work in the game. I do not understand how it works in general, we need tests.

For example:
Item1 = 1*Igredient#1 + 2*Igredient#2
Item1 = 2*Igredient#1 + 3*Igredient#2

If I put 1*Igredient#1 + 2*Igredient#2, I get the Item1 - it's clear.
But if I put 2*Igredient#1 + 3*Igredient#2, which item do I get? Item1 or Item2?
Suppose I put 50*Igredient#1 + 100*Igredient#2, and what happens in this case?
I believe that there is some priority, but tests are needed to understand how it works.

I don't know if I recall correctly, but I think there is no issue with number of ingridients overlaping, in the recipes that have specific units assigned... I mean, in the original Torchlihgt if you use 2 ember, yo get an ember 1 tier higher, but if you use 4 you get 2 tiers higher...
Then in my pets mod I added a recipe that follows the same concept for a fish, 2 fish = big fish, 3 fish = giant fish. And if I remember it worked fine.

Now I think they are issues if you have a recipe with units that overlaps with one with unittypes, I think this was the issue with the mod that added ember enhancing recipes. Since his repices overlaped with the ones for getting rare embers.

Obviusly this needs experimentation and testing.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on January 29, 2016, 08:24:59 am

I have not been here for so long that I have forgotten a lot, hehe.  :D
Well, after much thought, I decided to make two special tools for crafting.

(http://i.imgur.com/KYWcB8F.png)

Deductor & Inductor

Deductor - is a tool for salvaging items.
Inductor - is a tool for crafting complex items.

Technically, this is ingredients for a recipe, but this tools is not consumed. You can use it infinitely.
At the start you get the Deductor absolutely free and can salvage items.

And now I need your help guys. I need a description for these items, something simple and spectacular. ;)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on January 31, 2016, 10:48:14 pm

3d models for Ingredients.

(http://i.imgur.com/GfTq8Xl.png)

I did it because I plan to use it for a loot.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on February 01, 2016, 06:07:35 am

New Ingredients - Blood and Poison!  :)

(http://i.imgur.com/b6sA9XQ.png)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on February 01, 2016, 06:35:33 am

(http://i.imgur.com/uiwQgRc.png)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on February 01, 2016, 04:01:04 pm

Well, I received a critical remark that I have too much material.  :) I think so too - 11 is too many and excessively.

I combined Steel, Brass and Gold in a versatile material - Metal. Now it can mean any metal - bronze, silver, brass, platinum, etc.

I removed Leather, Fabric and Wood - now it will be as Junk. Junk - is a versatile material.

As a result, we have a beautiful and convenient list of 6 basic materials:
Junk, Metal, Gems, Bone, Blood, Poison.

Bone, Blood, Poison - it is "natural" materials, mostly, you get them from monsters.
Junk, Metal, Gems - more technological materials, you get them from different items.

Tech materials are used to create weapons, armor and jewelry.
Natural materials are used to make consumables - potions, ointments, etc.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on February 03, 2016, 12:59:55 am

I decided to change the title for my Steam Techno Combiner, now it will become Steam Tech Recycler.
 :D

Spoiler (hover to show)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/INF3-196_Salvage_Still_more_paper%2C_rags%2C_bones_wanted_for_salvage_Artist_Gilroy.jpg/800px-INF3-196_Salvage_Still_more_paper%2C_rags%2C_bones_wanted_for_salvage_Artist_Gilroy.jpg)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on February 03, 2016, 06:34:25 am

New icons for Bone- and Metal-materials.
(http://i.imgur.com/nIMtBTX.png)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Phanjam on February 05, 2016, 09:22:06 am

Hi Kva! I was just thinking - for recipes to make weapons, how can it be designed so that the base damage value can be made higher?  Would that need "grades" of the basic materials, like "metal1", "metal2", etc? (sorry, I've never made a recipe mod yet...)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on February 05, 2016, 02:47:04 pm

Quote from: Phanjam on February 05, 2016, 09:22:06 am

Hi Kva! I was just thinking - for recipes to make weapons, how can it be designed so that the base damage value can be made higher?  Would that need "grades" of the basic materials, like "metal1", "metal2", etc? (sorry, I've never made a recipe mod yet...)

That's a good question PJ.  :) I have some thoughts about it, but I'll write it below.

I have divided (conditionally) recipes into several groups:

1. Salvaging.
You can "break" items(all armor, weapons and jewelry right now) into simple materials - Junk, Metal, Gems, Bone.
1 Axe = 1 Junk + 1 Metal Scrap
1 Staff = 2 Junk + 2 Gems Speck
1 Heavy Armor = 1 Junk + 3 Metal Scrap
1 Light Helmet = 2 Junk
1 Ring = 1 Metal Scrap + 1 Gems Speck

Spoiler (hover to show)

(http://i.imgur.com/Y2O1QMS.png)

2. Сonverting.
а) You can convert simple materials(Metal, Gems, Bone etc.) into Junk:
1 Metal Scrap = 1 Junk
1 Gems Speck = 1 Junk
1 Blob of Blood = 1 Junk
etc.

b) You can convert simple "weak" materials into "strong" materials:
5 Metal Scrap = 1 Metal Ingot
5 Gems Speck = 1 Gems Shard
5 Blob of Blood = 1 Pint of Blood
5 Bone Scrap = 1 Bone Ball

c) You can convert simple "strong" materials into "weak" materials:
1 Metal Ingot = 4 Metal Scrap
1 Gems Shard = 4 Gems Speck
1 Pint of Blood = 4 Blob of Blood
1 Bone Ball = 4 Bone Scrap

Note: Why do I use 4 pieces as a result? Earlier, in my idea, I used more materials.
15 Weak Material = 1 Strong Material
1 Strong Material = 10 Weak Material
But I have found that you can`t get more than 4 any items as a result - is encoded in the game. Maximum number of "result items" - 4 and less.
For this reason, all my "salvage" recipes have 4 or less materials as a result. Also, I am forced to remove my tools Deductor & Inductor.  :(
For ingredients, you can use any number of items.

3. Crafting
a) Сonsumables - Vitalayser, Potions, Ointments, Shovel, Lockpicks
b) Pets - one of the important parts of the gameplay. You can create different items that allow you to summon different pets.
For example:
Skeleton
1 Skeleton Ring = 1 Ring(any) + 1 Bone Ball + 1 Cursed Skull
This Skeleton Ring will allow you to summon a simple skeleton without weapon. Then you can upgrade it.
1 Skeleton Warrior Ring = 1  Skeleton Ring + 1 Bone Ball + 1 Sword + 1 Metal Ingot
Now, with this new ring, you can summon Skeleton Warrior with sword.

c) Equipment (that's what you're asking PJ  :) )
Well, this is really difficult part of crafting. Now I do not have a final concept of how to implement it, but I have some ideas.
c1) Crafting a unique equipment using unique materials. Says:
1 Unique Helmet = 1 Aggregated Catalyst + 2 Metal Ingot + 1 Unique scheme
c2) Upgrade - this is a very tedious part of crafting, because I needed hundreds of recipes, but it might work as follows:
Item Tier2(T2) = Item Tier1(T1) + Materials

in reality, it can be made as follows:
1 Rare Axe T1 = 1 Normal Axe T1 + 1 Gems Shard
1 Normal Axe T2 = 1 Rare Axe T1 + 1 Metal Ingot

1 Rare Axe T2 = 1 Normal Axe T2 + 1 Gems Shard
1 Normal Axe T3 = 1 Rare Axe T2 + 1 Metal Ingot

and so on

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on February 05, 2016, 07:18:47 pm

[youtube width=430 height=240]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWNhe7rmxrI[/youtube]

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Wolven on February 06, 2016, 10:21:57 am

I tried replacing the YouTube plugin with another one, but the only other plugin I can find is broken. However you can specify the size of the video with the current plugin. Have a look here: http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=3982

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on February 06, 2016, 01:31:38 pm

Quote from: Wolven on February 06, 2016, 10:21:57 am

However you can specify the size of the video with the current plugin.

Thank you, Wolven, it works fine now.  :)
I use width=430 height=240

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Phanjam on February 07, 2016, 07:22:19 am

This is looking really really good Kva!

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on February 11, 2016, 06:51:26 pm

Well, I decided to change the Poison to something else. I need a more versatile ingredient for crafting Mana potions. I believe that we need some kind of magical essence. But I do not know how to call it.  :)
I thought over the options and I have the following:
1. Magic Essence
3. Weird Essence
4. Mystic Essence
5. Spirit Essence
6. Ember Essence
7. Mana Essence

The problem is that I already have a magic material - Gems, it is a kind pieces of Ember, I need the same material, but associated with living creatures.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on February 11, 2016, 10:20:33 pm

Quote from: Kva3imoda on February 11, 2016, 06:51:26 pm

magical essence

3d models

(http://i.imgur.com/OYarfmY.png)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Phanjam on February 12, 2016, 02:17:42 am

Quote from: Kva3imoda on February 11, 2016, 06:51:26 pm

...I already have a magic material - Gems, it is a kind pieces of Ember, I need the same material, but associated with living creatures.

I like "Mana Essence"...

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on February 14, 2016, 07:03:09 pm

Quote from: Phanjam on February 12, 2016, 02:17:42 am

I like "Mana Essence"...

Ok, now I need two names for weak and strong materials.
Mana Essence
Mana Absolute?

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: gytfunke on February 16, 2016, 11:58:13 am

Mana Essence
Mana Quintessence


Essence = "the intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract, that determines its character."
Quintessence = "the most perfect or typical example of a quality or class."

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on February 16, 2016, 06:23:12 pm

Quote from: gytfunke on February 16, 2016, 11:58:13 am

Mana Essence
Mana Quintessence

I like it. Thanks, gytfunke!  ;)

I have a request for you. Can you look at this issue (http://torchmodders.com/forums/modding-questions/a-couple-of-questions/msg3570/#msg3570)?

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Vkoslak on February 16, 2016, 07:57:43 pm

La Quintaessence -  that itchy, grimy feeling you have after staying overnight in a La Quinta motel. Possibly involves a rash of some kind.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: gytfunke on February 17, 2016, 06:40:15 am

Quote from: Vkoslak on February 16, 2016, 07:57:43 pm

La Quintaessence -  that itchy, grimy feeling you have after staying overnight in a La Quinta motel. Possibly involves a rash of some kind.

 :D  This makes me happy.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on February 18, 2016, 08:16:04 pm

The concept of the list of recipes:

(http://i.imgur.com/4kMraZi.png)


In the beginning, I planned to use the standard icons for recipes, as is in the original game. But later I realized that it would be uncomfortable. I decided to introduce color indication - a frame that indicate the type of recipe.
Red - salvage
Green - craft
Blue - upgrade
Gold - unique recipe
this solution allows you to quickly find the desired recipe.

In addition, I decided to use universal and simple schematic icons for items of the same type.
Shirt - armor, crossed weapons - all kinds of weapons, bottle - all potions, etc.
A detailed description you will see if you hover the mouse pointer.

Also, the recipes have a handy feature - List Index(sadly, it should be added manually in a text editor).
These indexes can be divided into groups. For example:
1-10 - Important consumables
11-20 - Secondary consumables
21 - 30 - Tools
31 - 100 - Unique recipes
1000 - 2000 - Unimportant recipes
This system will sort all your recipes according to their importance and necessity. Everything necessary will always be at the top of list.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Phanjam on February 19, 2016, 12:49:22 am

This sounds fantastic! Do you need help with text for the indexes?

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on February 19, 2016, 06:15:13 am

Quote from: Phanjam on February 19, 2016, 12:49:22 am

Do you need help with text for the indexes?

You mean a short Description? Well, I think this can be corrected later, in alpha-test.

(http://i.imgur.com/7Nzny2X.png)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Phanjam on February 20, 2016, 04:30:24 am

Excellent work on the icons Kva ;)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on February 20, 2016, 04:52:15 am

Quote from: Phanjam on February 20, 2016, 04:30:24 am

Excellent work on the icons Kva ;)

Well ... technically it's not really my work.  ::) I used icons from http://game-icons.net
This resource contains excellent schematic monochrome images.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Phanjam on February 20, 2016, 06:12:05 pm

Ooh thanks for the tip!

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on August 29, 2016, 11:36:54 pm

I feel like my material "Blood" not an ideal solution. I suppose that new materials: Life Essence/Life Quintessence will be better.  :)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Phanjam on August 30, 2016, 03:54:10 am

I actually like the idea of blood being a recipe item ;) blood of sturmbeorn, blood of warbeast, etc. Lots of variety!

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on August 30, 2016, 06:25:45 pm

Quote from: Phanjam on August 30, 2016, 03:54:10 am

blood of sturmbeorn, blood of warbeast, etc. Lots of variety!

Well, only as unique ingredients for something special.
I need Essence as a common ingredient for consumables. Let's say... you kill monsters and get their magic and life energy.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on August 30, 2016, 06:35:13 pm

For me it is important to have a final version of an ordinary loot from monsters, because it affects the spawn classes and monsters. As you know, I plan to create my own monsters for my mod. I need tests for monster health, damage, speed, loot etc.
It is not difficult to create a unique monster and unique loot for certain events. But to create a loot system for the whole game - this is challenging task.

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on August 31, 2016, 08:03:14 pm

(http://i.imgur.com/hrwdnCQ.png)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Kva3imoda on November 10, 2016, 08:21:42 pm

As you remember, I want to add schemes for crafting unique items. This scheme is a unique ingredient for crafting and a sort of visual stimulus to make this item. Pictures is much more interesting than just text, but it is quite time-consuming.  :-[

(http://s15.postimg.org/9lbgouwgb/weapons_schemex300.png)

Title: Re: [CONCEPT] "The Dark Palace" Crafting System
Post by: Phanjam on November 12, 2016, 07:59:23 pm

Heyya Kva the art looks a like a Michaelangelo sketch! Very effective "stimulus" ;)