Mod Projects => Lolesch's Playground => Classless Character Concept (New) => Topic started by: Phanjam on April 04, 2015, 09:57:52 pm
Title: Stat-driven Skills: How They Work
Post by: Phanjam on April 04, 2015, 09:57:52 pm
This thread is to discuss the broad direction we all think such a mod should take (more heads are better than one).
May I start by tossing some ideas out there...
1. There are working examples already of skills unlocking from other skills (built-in to GUTS) and skills unlocking from stat investments (developed by gyt specifically for a classless char idea). I propose we start with skills unlocking from stat investments only, because that would (imo) make the stat investments more important and require more planning (also in the interest of keeping it simple, at least to start; we can always try fancier stat-&-skill combo requirements later).
2. I agree with gytfunke's idea that you'd need a "short forest" of skills to make this concept viable/fun. So I propose early on we try to make a "system" for stat-based skills - some set of file templates, maybe a custom skill-tree .layout, etc. which are specifically meant to make adding skills easy enough to crowd-source. Let's face it; there are so few of us here, so lack-of-time and burn-out are very real.
3. I propose we start with just the four current stats (str, dex, vit & foc) again to keep it simple. But we might design it to allow for more stats in the future and I think it'd be important to design it so it's easy to tweak for different stat-mechanics like RnF's stat overhaul mod (where gyt was also a major contributor, incidentally). A personal dream combo of mine would be a stable classless skill system working off of RnF's stat set-up.
Hoping I've caught you guys' fancy with all this!
Title: Stat-driven Skills: How They Work
Post by: Phanjam on April 04, 2015, 10:14:00 pm
I thank you again for pointing out how you used the skill tree .layout to get stats to drive skill unlocks. But pls pardon me, there's just too much in there that I am not familiar with at all. I thought I could reverse-engineer it but I just can't (breaks down sobbing)!
Anyway, can I request something like a mini-tutorial of what those things are in the skill tree .LAYOUT, what they link to or drive elsewhere, what has to be written into the skill .DATs themselves, if anything, etc.
Thanks for any help!
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: Alternative Unlocking Mechanic
Post by: Phanjam on April 04, 2015, 11:12:59 pm
Oh before you do any tutorials ;) , I just wanted to throw this out there... I get how the skilltree could control the unlocking, but doesn't that mean what you're unlocking is the skill position on the tree, not the skill itself?
Wouldn't it be simpler (assuming it's possible) to control unlocking of skill levels inside the skill .DAT, same way as like LEVEL_REQUIRED? So in this stat-based project, a skill level would need a certain Stat Counter to be at a certain level before it would become available?
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: Request For Help
Post by: gytfunke on April 05, 2015, 06:16:31 pm
Hey PJ. The skill tree UI's the best way I could find to do stat requirements. From inside the skill there's no way to keep people from investing skill points into a skill due to inadequate stats. You can keep them from using it, but they can still spend points on a skill they can't use.
I'll explain it sometime soon, but I've got a lot of homework for the next 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: Request For Help
Post by: gytfunke on April 06, 2015, 11:08:04 pm
Okay, it took me just a couple minutes to do this vid. Then I realized you said you didn't need it, but here it is anyways:
http://youtu.be/nWB-R7olXtc
So, are you thinking you want separate stat requirements per level of a skill?
It looks easier and there is some additional incentive. But it must be bound to the base Stat value (to avoid tricks with items +Stat)
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: Request For Help
Post by: Phanjam on April 09, 2015, 03:47:07 am
Quote from: gytfunke
Okay, it took me just a couple minutes to do this vid. Then I realized you said you didn't need it, but here it is anyways:
Thanks so much gyt! Oh and I didn't mean that I don't need it - I just didn't want you to go thru the trouble of making one, IF the other way I was asking about was easier to do (which it turns out, won't work for what we need).
I've downloaded the vid to be able to play/replay easily (also the sound aint too good :P so I'll probably augment that). I aim to proceed something like...
1. Learn how to plug skills into your modified tree system first, 2. Modify some of the existing TL2 skills to plug those into your tree, 3. Eventually learn how to "maintain" the tree system itself (like if we ever want to add more skill-slots)
In line with number 3, I see that using a slider gives you much more freedom than using tabs. But is there a limit to how "wide" the skill slider can be?
Quote from: Kva3imoda
Quote from: gytfunke
So, are you thinking you want separate stat requirements per level of a skill?
It looks easier and there is some additional incentive. But it must be bound to the base Stat value (to avoid tricks with items +Stat)
Yes this is what I'm thinking. @Kva3imoda , your suggestion is fine if the skills will have that many levels, but with this "classless character" concept the idea with the skills is to have "fewer skill levels, but many many more skills", so the player can build their char with any skills they want; they just have to build their stats to meet the requirements of the skill. By fewer skill levels, maybe the maximum is 5 levels.
@gytfunke when you say "more logicking" is that hard to do?
*************
((SORRY I edited your post, Phanjam, I was trying to Quote it!))
Lol no problem, uh... gyt? Kva?
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: Request For Help
Post by: Kva3imoda on April 09, 2015, 05:16:37 am
your suggestion is fine if the skills will have that many levels, but with this "classless character" concept the idea with the skills is to have "fewer skill levels
Oh, my fault, I forget it. :) But I follow it now.
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: Request For Help
Post by: gytfunke on April 09, 2015, 09:53:51 am
Ahem. Not much logicking. I'll figure it out when I have time.
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: Request For Help
Post by: Phanjam on April 10, 2015, 07:22:15 pm
Hey Kva no problem! The same logic can be used for a mod with fewer skills with more levels per skill.
Can a skill level require certain levels of more than one stat, like... Lv 3 requires 30 Str AND 30 Dex ?
And would there be a limit to that? Like could a skill require certain levels for all 4 stats?
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: Request For Help
Post by: gytfunke on April 11, 2015, 02:13:23 pm
Hey Phanjam,
Yes. It's really easy to add extra stat requirements to a skill. I'll do that, too.
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: Request For Help
Post by: Phanjam on April 14, 2015, 08:34:18 am
Hi gyt!
I was able to watch your vid-tut more thoroughly a few nights ago - I saw how you set stat requirements for a skill and I can see how it wouldn't be difficult to replicate that for more than one stat (sorry for asking without really going through your vid!).
I also saw how you can keep adding more skill columns via copy-paste. And that's kinda the reason I asked about the skill-slider.
If you wanted to keep all the skills on one slider, the short forest would need a pretty loooong slider! Can the skill dialog still work via tabs? Altho I'm thinking the tabs would be wider than the vanilla ones. I'm thinking of something like this...
5 skill-columns to a tab / skills are 4 levels max
left & right tab navigation buttons
related skills can group on 1 tab (tab could be named to match)
(http://i.imgur.com/qFzUP6v.png)
standard background graphics for all tabs
skill icons use "image state" for unavailable/available/invested
Whaddya think?
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: Request For Help
Post by: Phanjam on April 14, 2015, 09:58:55 am
Here's an alternative layout. I got 6 skills onto the tab. Progression thru the skill's 4 levels is represented by boxed numerals which light up as you invest...
(http://i.imgur.com/1CBn6Jz.png)
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: Request For Help
Post by: gytfunke on April 14, 2015, 10:50:55 am
Yup, those would both work.
And multiple stat requirements would just require two stat evaluators and a logic gate, like this:
(STAT1=True)+(STAT2=True)-->LOGIC GATE(Requires stat1/2 to be true)-->Unlock skill icon.
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: How They Work
Post by: Phanjam on April 19, 2015, 04:34:05 am
Sorry for the long silence- it's been a rough week :-\
I had planned on getting all the logic for stat-based skills down pat in my head this weekend, so I could try making a first sample skill tree. But RL just wasn't cooperative.
But I'm going to keep at this. It's really caught my fancy ;)
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: How They Work
Post by: lolesch on October 07, 2015, 11:01:45 am
Hey, not sure if this is still needed but I was wondering about all that stat thing. Is there a reason you use stats instead of just the enable/disable - show/hide in the logic? Skilltear 2 is hidden and by clicking the skilltear 1 MButtonUp -> show Window skilltear 2 and so on.
I just didnt understand the need of stats here :D
Eddit: nevermind. I think i got it.. you unlock skills after reaching certain Stat values?
[Q] I create a skill (lets say gain +% attack speed) and link it in the player.dat with level = 1 but work with these Stat reqs: Would this allow me to unlock the skill (no clicking needed) just by spending stat points?
that is obviously what i was looking for (if working!)
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: How They Work
Post by: lolesch on October 07, 2015, 01:58:42 pm
well i worked through that menu to come up with a more simple logic where you dont need the "add" and "check" evaluators... correct me if i'm wrong!
SkillOne is enabled but hidden - Skill 2-5 are disabled and hidden Text RequirementOne is enabled and shown Req2-5 are disabled
Open menu evaluates required stats. If fals you can read the ReqText. If true you see the Skill and can click the button. This will show either the next Skill (If Value = true) or the ReqText2 and so on.
But maybe I just didnt got your Idea of the extra Stats...
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: How They Work
Post by: gytfunke on October 07, 2015, 02:30:17 pm
Heya Iolesch,
Yours does look simpler. Some things to test:
1)Invest a point in T1S1 to show T1S2. --Close the skill window and reopen it. --Is T1S2 still visible? --Quit the game and reenter with the same character. --Is T1S2 still visible?
Also, @Phanjam, are you still working on your skill UI? It looks super spiffy! I didn't notice your posts back in April :-[ I was super busy at the time and they must have gotten buried in the Recent Topics feed.
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: How They Work
Post by: Phanjam on October 08, 2015, 04:26:08 am
Also, @Phanjam, are you still working on your skill UI? It looks super spiffy! I didn't notice your posts back in April :-[ I was super busy at the time and they must have gotten buried in the Recent Topics feed.
You mean the stuff I posted around this time (http://torchmodders.com/forums/classless-character-public-board/stat-driven-skills-request-for-help/msg2010/#msg2010)? Haven't worked on it since that time :P but if anyone wants to use it they're very welcome to it! (I just need to find it first LOL!)
@lolesch I know you're a skilled artist, so you may have ideas in your head already. I think we should focus on getting the mechanics to work smoothly first, then make the art to support/enhance it ;)
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: How They Work
Post by: lolesch on October 08, 2015, 07:08:18 am
Okay, I got another tough nut to crack (at least for me) I got the stat point tree working, you can invest a point to unlock the next one. After 5 points you will reach another Button. Now what I need is a passive skill with different states. You already learned it but it has no impact. Clicking the Button in the StatsMenu will operate to add a dynamic stat -> this should automatically enable/add/remove a different Skill level/affix? without investing skill points.
after another 5 statpoints invested you can reach another button to unlock/change a skill...
Could this work? I couldnt get it to run propper... :-[
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: How They Work
Post by: gytfunke on October 08, 2015, 02:50:15 pm
Hi lolesch,
Should work. There's a few quirks (as always, right?).
But I have a question first. Is this the implementation you have in mind?
1. Base Skill enabled at lvl1 with different States 2. Click Button -> Stat Operatator - add dyStat -> Skill bonus is added to the player so yeah, basically you are right but there is this thing I have to work around the "spent Skillpoint" thing becaus I cant use it there...
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: How They Work
Post by: lolesch on October 09, 2015, 02:05:43 pm
I'll try it again: you know Diablo3 skills system? you unlock skills by leveling up (passively. no skill point spent) and the you got the possibility to choose Runes modifying your skill. Thats basically the same mechanic I'm looking for. Lets say I've learned a skill and now i want to choose between different affixes through the UI without spending Skill points... I've tried to controll the affixes with statrequirements and add/remove the stats by clicking buttons but as far as I can say it dint worked out. But thats maybe just because of my rare knowledge of skills
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: How They Work
Post by: lolesch on October 10, 2015, 12:53:50 pm
well, what I got so far: a menu where you can spend Statpoints in a Tree (one unlocks the next). every few steps you can unlock skills (by adding a stat -> the Skill has a statreq). I gave the magma spear a statrequirement and I couldnt use it untill I spent my statpoints to unlock it. works fine!
Now there is just a little problem: this doesnt work with passive skills as far as i can say. They just ignore my Statrequirement :'( and my skilltree is based on passives :D any Ideas?
thats the concept of the "map"
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: How They Work
Post by: Phanjam on October 11, 2015, 05:43:13 am
Hey Lolesch congratulations! And it sounds like you're on to something big!
Now there is just a little problem: this doesnt work with passive skills as far as i can say. They just ignore my Statrequirement :'( and my skilltree is based on passives :D any Ideas?
I can't think of anything at first - are you testing using existing passive skills? Maybe you have to make custom ones for this new system (I don't really know for sure...)
I can't think of anything at first - are you testing using existing passive skills? Maybe you have to make custom ones for this new system (I don't really know for sure...)
I was testing all types.. normal, passive, any but nothing really worked the way i want it to
Quote
Wow! So your UI will have horizontal/vertical scroll bars, or will you make a big version of your famous pop-ups? ;)
::) Huh, what do you mean by "my famous pop-ups" ? I'm using hor/vert scroll yeah
Title: Re: Stat-driven Skills: How They Work
Post by: Phanjam on October 11, 2015, 06:00:44 am
Now there is just a little problem: this doesnt work with passive skills as far as i can say. They just ignore my Statrequirement :'( and my skilltree is based on passives :D any Ideas?
I'm not following you entirely. You could send me the file and I might be able to get back to you in about a week. I'll take a look at it and see what I can figure out.