Torchmodders
Mod Projects => Torchlight I Classes Pack - Public Board => Actual Gameplay Feedback => Topic started by: Phanjam on November 22, 2014, 10:46:33 pm
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Hi all! Great feedback from Chthon re. the Alch class, from the Steam Workshop threads...
22 Nov @ 12:08pm
OK, now it's time for some Alchemist comments. First, some general comments:
1. Out of all the classes in this pack, the alchemist is the least finished. It's not really ready for testing, in my humble opinion.
2. Many of the skills are lacking tier bonuses. The ones that have them are really uninspired. You probably already knew this.
3. The 7th skill is missing for each tree. You probably already knew this.
4. Same issues with the passives as the other classes.
5. There are too many WDPS skills and WDPS skills that turn into hybrid skills with a tier bonus. Especially since the delivery vectors are similar on so many of these skills, we're ending up with essentially the same skill over and over, and when that happens the one with the best WDPS/cycle time is the winner, and everything else is a bad choice. Also, hybrid WDPS+flat skills are hard to balance, and having so many of them is a recipe for trouble.
6. Few (maybe none?) of the skills have recharges (or any other costs besides mana and cast time).
7. All of the minions share a bunch of problems: (a) No display for their damage in the tooltip. (b) Move speed is way too fast. (c) Aggro range is way too big. They are chasing stuff miles off the screen. (d) Not dying with zone changes or quit and restart.
Now, some skill-specific comments:
Ember Bolt: Generally fine. Maybe increase range as rank increases.
Ice Shock: A large ranged AoE on a low delay like this is maybe too strong (compare to embermage's infernal collapse). Funky behavior at close range -- skill should have min range req to prvent that. Projectile has problems with hills/uneven terrain.
Ember Lightning: THis skill just isn't working right. The particle isn't displaying much of the time. It's not chaining, despite the description that says it does. There seems to be some kind of hold-and-drag targeting, but I can't make it work worth a darn. I can't really comment on its balance in this state.
Ember Lance: This guys is as OP as it was in TL1. Maybe reduce the range in line with the embermage skill that's cloned from it. Has problems with hills/uneven terrain. Typo in description ("attack speedy").
Pyre: Exact same issues as ice shock.
Ember Strike: Range is too big.
Nether Imp: See general comments regarding minions. I had trouble getting the second imp to cast despite having a corpse nearby.
Thorned Minions: Probably OK. Potentially becomes a balance problem if minion health greatly exceeds monster health and/or minions can unfailingly be replaced faster than they die. Needs tier bonuses.
Alchemical Golem: See general comments regarding minions.
Beam Golem: See general comments regarding minions.
Terror: This skill is utterly worthless. Maybe with the addition of some secondary debuffs, it might become useful. (Or maybe a totem thing like in D2 so it becomes a "wall of fear.")
Burning Brand: SHould be OK so long as minion damage numbers are sane to start with.
Ember Shock: Startup is maybe too slow for melee skill for a caster. Generally you want to be quick at getting things out of your face. (See embermage's zappy hands skill.) The bigger problem is that all the overuse of hybrid WDPS+flat damage comes home to roost here: This skill is rendered completely worthless by the fact the all the other hybrid WDPS+flat skills are ranged attacks with bigger damage numbers and unconditional AoE with a bigger range. There's no reason to ever pick this skill when you can pick one of those.
Ember Shield: If this is supposed to be scaling with focus and vitality, it's not right. (Focus and Vitality aren't named "focus and vitality" internally.) Also, I've never seen the shield buffer effect used with a type. You might want to do some testing to see if it's really restricted to just phys damage like the display says. From a balnce point of view, I'm not sure scaling with Focus and Vit is a good idea in the first place because, well, Borris. Also, it's really hard to balance strong defense effects like this in only one dimension. (Compare to engineer's forcefield that uses mana, cast time, recharge time, and charge costs.)
Infuse: Simultaneously overpowered at low levels ("OMG it's like having 60 extra Strength!") and underpowered at high levels. Very overpowered due to all the WDPS skills everywhere. (Another place where that comes home to roost problematically.) Since this is basically a passive skill, why not make it a passive skill?
Frailty: While this would be useful as a ranged skill, its benefits don't justify the risk of using it at point blank range. Either make it a ranged skill, or dramatically buff it.
Ember Phase: Fine.
Ember Sentry: See general comments regarding minions (except the part about aggro). Range is too long. The "+X% phys dmg" mod is really odd -- especially since the minion does fire damage. (Either way the tooltip needs to be made to make sense.) Also, doesn't this use a beam graphic in TL1? Needs a duration indicator on the HUD.
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Hey all, I've just tackled the Artificer, so roughly halfway through the alch playthrough. Here are my observations so far.
First let me say that I love the lack of summon timers. I've always felt like a proper summoner should spend more time supporting the minions with other skills rather than managing cooldowns constantly, so it's already better than vanilla in that regard. Unfortunately there is one major issue it shares with vanilla, and I'm not sure if this can be modded or not, but minions are largely ignored by enemies. They can't really tank for you, and end up running in circles chasing the enemy as the enemy runs in circles chasing you, which is all rather silly. If at all possible, please address this.
Onto actual skills, lets start with Nether Imp. They're reasonably effective in combat, and the raising from corpses effect is pretty cool, however there's one big problem. There are many situations where they are impossible to use at all. You may be surprised how many types of enemies leave no corpse to begin with, not to mention how often corpses explode when you hit them hard enough. Also, the game seems to deliberately explode corpses in major boss battles and phase beast challenges wherein waves of mobs are spawned, to prevent them from piling up. From past experience, this will also affect endgame content like Tarroch's Tomb. Add to this the fact that minions disappear on map changes, as well as the game removing existing corpses if you reenter an area, and you see that the Imps are underutilized. My recommendation is to allow summoning a minimum of one imp per cast, even with no corpses present, and amend the description to say you can lure more out of the nether realm by offering fresh corpses (also explaining why the static corpses encountered in the world don't work). And as a minor side note, the nether imp footstep sound effects wear on my nerves after a while. I'd really prefer them to be muffled if not silenced altogether.
Next summon, the Alchemical Golem. I think this has a lot of potential, especially if the general problem with enemy AI can be addressed. However, the golem desperately needs a move speed buff, as it spends the majority of the time trying to catch up to the rest of the group, often arriving just as the battle ends. It could also use some knockback resistance if it's going to tank properly.
Thorned Minions is a nice idea, but the aforementioned issue with enemies ignoring minions makes it wholly irrelevant.
On the more active side of things, Ember Bolt could use a little fine tuning. The damage at Tier 0 is strictly inferior to auto-attacking with the first wand you pick up. It becomes serviceable once you're firing at least three bolts, but it should really gain an additional chance to poison, with poison chance and poison duration increasing by rank. Compare to its closest kin, Prismatic Bolt, which I suspect it was cloned from anyway.
Ember Lightning damage also feels a little low, and the sound effect volume is much too loud.
I love the concept of Ember Barrage. It's like a magical minigun, and actually quite potent once it "spins up". I'm not so much a fan of the aim-assist on it though. Much of the time it arcs around what I'm trying to shoot, completely missing even stationary targets at short to medium range.
Ember Lance is much easier to aim, but the damage is almost nonexistent. It really struggles to break shields or penetrate enemy armor even on normal difficulty.
There are some irregularities in the alchemist skill tree in general: Nether Crystals and Ember Sentry requiring level 28, and Alchemical Powder Bombs and Ember Phase requiring level 35. These all deviate from the standard progression of Tier 1 to Tier 7 skills. There's also the fact that several alchemist skills do not improve with ranks except via tier bonuses. This has an interesting impact on character progression, which may encourage players to try out a greater variety of skills since Rank 1 is just as good as Rank 4 with less mana cost. It's also somewhat convenient for my purposes of playtesting the class for the time being, but assuming this was unintentional, it should maybe be addressed at some point.
I'll be back with more input, most likely after I track down my doppelganger.
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Hi Geist! First of all, welcome! Happy to have you here.
Guys, I asked Geist to playtest TL1CP so we could get critical observations from someone with "fresh eyes".
Thank you Geist for the great feedback. Now to engage you in discussion...
First let me say that I love the lack of summon timers. I've always felt like a proper summoner should spend more time supporting the minions with other skills rather than managing cooldowns constantly, so it's already better than vanilla in that regard. Unfortunately there is one major issue it shares with vanilla, and I'm not sure if this can be modded or not, but minions are largely ignored by enemies. They can't really tank for you, and end up running in circles chasing the enemy as the enemy runs in circles chasing you, which is all rather silly. If at all possible, please address this.
Hmm I should get in more actual playtime (as opposed to modding time) with the Alch summons to try and observe this. I know there are ways to induce aggro so that's a possibility if warranted.
...Nether Imp. They're reasonably effective in combat, and the raising from corpses effect is pretty cool, however there's one big problem. There are many situations where they are impossible to use at all. You may be surprised how many types of enemies leave no corpse to begin with, not to mention how often corpses explode when you hit them hard enough. Also, the game seems to deliberately explode corpses in major boss battles and phase beast challenges wherein waves of mobs are spawned, to prevent them from piling up.
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My recommendation is to allow summoning a minimum of one imp per cast, even with no corpses present, and amend the description to say you can lure more out of the nether realm by offering fresh corpses.
Yes scarcity of corpses would pose a problem. Or maybe we could make it kill-based or something. Will look into this more.
And as a minor side note, the nether imp footstep sound effects wear on my nerves after a while. I'd really prefer them to be muffled if not silenced altogether.
Haha okay I'll look into this ;)
...Alchemical Golem. I think this has a lot of potential, especially if the general problem with enemy AI can be addressed. However, the golem desperately needs a move speed buff, as it spends the majority of the time trying to catch up to the rest of the group, often arriving just as the battle ends. It could also use some knockback resistance if it's going to tank properly.
Easy enough, I'll get that done.
Thorned Minions is a nice idea, but the aforementioned issue with enemies ignoring minions makes it wholly irrelevant.
Fair enough. This forms part of the impetus for studying pet aggro then.
...Ember Bolt could use a little fine tuning. The damage at Tier 0 is strictly inferior to auto-attacking with the first wand you pick up. It becomes serviceable once you're firing at least three bolts, but it should really gain an additional chance to poison, with poison chance and poison duration increasing by rank.
Good suggestions those for added tier bonuses. Will see what can be done about its lower-level damage numbers.
Ember Lightning damage also feels a little low, and the sound effect volume is much too loud.
Will play around with the damage values. Agree on the volume/will adjust.
I love the concept of Ember Barrage. It's like a magical minigun, and actually quite potent once it "spins up". I'm not so much a fan of the aim-assist on it though. Much of the time it arcs around what I'm trying to shoot, completely missing even stationary targets at short to medium range.
Yeah I like this skill too! But credit for that skill goes to Black, creator of the Nethermage class mod for TL1.
Yes it IS hard to aim. Will see what I can do about those missiles.
Ember Lance is much easier to aim, but the damage is almost nonexistent. It really struggles to break shields or penetrate enemy armor even on normal difficulty.
Really? I actually thought it was tending towards being OP. But then again I have sooo little actual playtime with the Alch. I will look into this.
...some irregularities in the alchemist skill tree in general: Nether Crystals and Ember Sentry requiring level 28, and Alchemical Powder Bombs and Ember Phase requiring level 35. These all deviate from the standard progression of Tier 1 to Tier 7 skills.
Well that's definitely not supposed to be the case. Will fix that, thanks.
There's also the fact that several alchemist skills do not improve with ranks except via tier bonuses.
I'll track those down, but for now could you be a little more specific pls?
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Glad to hear there's hope for minions.
Yes scarcity of corpses would pose a problem. Or maybe we could make it kill-based or something. Will look into this more.
I'm not a fan of the Outlander method of summoning via kills. Why have minions if I'm already killing everything? I think if it just spawned one imp in the event of zero corpses it'd be enough to make it functional. That way it's more costly to replace them in a "high stakes" battle.
...Ember Bolt could use a little fine tuning. The damage at Tier 0 is strictly inferior to auto-attacking with the first wand you pick up. It becomes serviceable once you're firing at least three bolts, but it should really gain an additional chance to poison, with poison chance and poison duration increasing by rank.
Good suggestions those for added tier bonuses. Will see what can be done about its lower-level damage numbers.
I think the current tier bonuses are sufficient. I meant increasing chance and duration for each individual rank. Again, compare to Prismatic Bolt which does this for each element. Ember Bolt only needs to do so for poison.
Really? I actually thought it was tending towards being OP. But then again I have sooo little actual playtime with the Alch. I will look into this.
Perhaps it was at one point and someone nerfed it a little too hard? I unlocked it just before fighting the manticore and couldn't even scratch it with this skill. I've never seen any other skill drain the mana globe to no effect. Only the enemies with the least armor took any damage. It crits for double digit damage on the target dummy in town.
I'll track those down, but for now could you be a little more specific pls?
Ember Bolt, Ember Lightning, Nether Imp, Summon Alchemical Golem, and Ember Shock so far. Apparently Nether Crystals as well since it doesn't appear to actually do any damage at all. Even its tooltip says "deals ___". Could be more, but I haven't unlocked the rest yet.
I think Ember Shock could be a little more interesting as an actual melee option. Since you appear to be slapping them with that big ol' glove, why not make it weapon DPS based and drop the cooldown? Maybe lower the initial stun chance and allow it to grow with ranks? Ember Lance could potentially use DPS as well, if only to help differentiate itself from Ember Barrage. Then you'd only have to balance the DPS percentage vs the firing rate.
Speaking of firing rate, does Ember Barrage have any upper limit at all? Testing it on the target dummy it got progressively faster until my mana was completely gone. The sound effects get kind of broken at some point and it begins affecting the game's frame rate if you drink potions to keep it going. It's a good thing it doesn't build charge.
Well, back to saving Zeryphesh!
Edit: I just now managed to have two golems out at once, but haven't been able to reproduce the issue again. Will keep trying.
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I'll track those down, but for now could you be a little more specific pls?
Ember Bolt, Ember Lightning, Nether Imp, Summon Alchemical Golem, and Ember Shock so far. Apparently Nether Crystals as well since it doesn't appear to actually do any damage at all. Even its tooltip says "deals ___". Could be more, but I haven't unlocked the rest yet.
Okay, the skills you mention have their damage set to USEOWNERLEVEL:TRUE, so they actually do scale with your char's level (it's just that the tooltip will show the same damage for the next level, while your char is at any given level). Pls let me know if this method of scaling is still insufficient.
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I know that; I'm saying that adding points to those skills does nothing but raise the mana cost, so there's no reason to spend anything until you can jump up to the next tier all at once. I can't think of any vanilla skills that do this. There's always some effect for each point spent, but it doesn't necessarily have to be increased damage.
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Okay there's a later version of the mod (http://torchmodders.com/forums/tl1cp-private-board/latest-build-info/msg3429/?topicseen#new) I just put up. What I've done here is I've kept the main damage cargo based on OWNERLEVEL but added other complimentary effects which improve only with the point investment, like your suggestion for Emberbolt to add an increasing chance and duration to poison the target.
So far I've changed Emberbolts, Emberlightning and Emberlance. Will keep working on the rest, but do pls let me know what you think of the changes ;)
Thanks and Merry Christmas!
EDIT:
@Geist , at first I just didn't get your point about "spending a skill point only increases the mana cost". And then it hit me - relying on USEOWNERLEVEL to scale the skills' damage the way I did, allows you to get the damage scaling without ever spending a skill point! And I might never have seen that if not for your comment, so thanks very much :D This is what I meant about looking at things with "fresh eyes"!
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Okay v.88 of the mod is available (http://torchmodders.com/forums/tl1cp-private-board/latest-build-info/msg3438/#msg3438). It applies Geist's suggested "skill model" to almost all the Alch skills.
It shouldn't require a new char :o hope you can still squeeze out a little more playtest time, thanks mucho!
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Finally got around to finishing act 2. Things are looking better in the new version.
The poison (and therefore weakness) on Ember Bolt is very nice as I usually find myself spamming it on things that get uncomfortably close, softening the impact. Iceshock looks like a good change. A nice slowing effect is always useful, and it progresses smoothly now instead of a huge 80% all at once. So far Ember Barrage is still my go-to boss killer, even if it only shoots straight roughly one-third of the time.
Ember Lance can actually deal damage now, though I primarily use it to sweep up trash mobs, as it's still weaker than most skills. It's also more similar than ever to Ember Barrage now, and I think they should be more distinctive. I threw out the idea earlier of making it and possibly Ember Shock into weapon DPS skills. Assuming Ember Shock lost its long cooldown, this would open up a new melee playstyle for the class, as well as giving Alchemist players some reason to invest in weapon passives which would otherwise be pointless for them.
I see I can now summon an Imp without corpses. This is good! However I'm now stuck with exactly one imp until some corpses are found. Can I not just cast the spell repeatedly to get up to the usual limit? Seems fair since I'm spending extra mana that way. Corpses continue to be absent in many locations, especially Ezrohir areas.
Did you tinker with the minion aggro at all? They seemed to be doing a much better job of holding the enemies' attention. I even saw a few mobs turn away from me to fight my minions instead, which has never happened before. Champions continue to completely ignore them, though I guess one could argue that they should go after the player more.
If you're still looking for ways to improve skills by ranks, some of the ones with longer cooldowns could maybe reduce those slightly with each rank.
To Be Continued
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Hey Geist! Happy New Year!
Before anything else, you might want to update to version 89 (http://torchmodders.com/forums/tl1cp-private-board/latest-build-info/msg3443/#msg3443) of the mod - it applies the new scaling-method to the 2 Golem skills, so that's all the Alch's skills updated (whew) 8)
Glad you like Ember Bolt and Ice Shock! Yeah, I haven't tweaked the Ember Barrage missile yet; will put some time into that now. Glad you like Ember Lance better and I can see how it and Ember Barrage could become too similar. I will look into that.
I'll try a weapon DPS-based damage model for Ember Shock. I did bring it's cooldown to just 1sec; does that better suit a melee build now?
About summoning more than 1 imp without corpses, yes that's possible. Will build and test a version that works that way and revert when it looks okay.
I actually did not do anything yet to tweak minion aggro, but am glad you feel it's somehow improved because the method I was thinking of is looking very messy. Pls let me know if it's improved enough that we might leave it as is.
On shortening cooldowns more, yes I'll look into that.
Thanks so much and hope you like the new Golems ;)
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Well if you didn't touch it yet, I have no idea what happened. Out of curiosity, what was this method you had in mind?
Something about this update ate all the points I had in Alchemical Golem, and a respec potion doesn't recover them either. Any clue why?
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Out of curiosity, what was this method you had in mind?
To give the minion a pulse/aura passive skill which would continuously "jab" nearby enemies with a teeny bit of damage, to call attention to itself.
Something about this update ate all the points I had in Alchemical Golem, and a respec potion doesn't recover them either. Any clue why?
Aargh, sorry but I don't know what happened there, it should not have done that >:( . Would you consider a console cheat ("SKILLPOINTS x" I believe it is) to get them back?
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I have a feeling it may not work on champs anyway. They seem to exclusively target players, probably by design.
Yeah it's like it considers the new version a totally different skill than the old. Fixed it easily enough though.
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Hi Geist!
Pardon the delay, but I've got the new Imp Summon skill at a test-able state now.
You can now summon 3 imps even without corpses around and this holds true all the way to level 15. BUT imps summoned this way have a 2min duration (unless they are killed before that) while Imps summoned via corpses have no duration limit and will stay until they are killed off.
I made it this way to put an incentive on summoning imps from corpses, so as not to deviate too much from TL1 canon.
It's in version 91 which you can get here (http://torchmodders.com/forums/tl1cp-private-board/latest-build-info/msg3480/#msg3480).
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hi, im new here. i would like to drop a feedback for the alchemist.
so far im lvl 13, i have synergies and the new LAO 3.
i find that theirs no reliable skill damage for leveling standpoint. emberbolt is nice probably more initial damage would help and a bit more range.i find that it plays well with ice shatter. for keeping enemies at bay.
but as far as damage its a little weak.
the imp i find also a bit weak, once i got the golem construct i remove the imp, seems unnecessary at that point.and some of the skills for spawing are not so attractive such as the torns skill(forgot the name).
its flame gauntlet is good though really nice touch on that, i wish the electric gauntlet would also increase damage with charget consume. that will make it competitive.
overall great class, my favorate so far. just needs a clear battle tactic.
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Hi mohammed! Welcome to torchmodders first of all.
Thanks very much for the feedback. It comes at a good time, because I just started some Alch characters to review some other feedback I got from the Steam forums.
I plan to play up to about level 20 on 3 builds (melee, ranged caster and summoner) to come up with plans on what to tweak and how.
If it's not too much trouble, can you pls continue to post your observations here? It would be a big help!
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im at lvl 15, emberstrike looks powerful when blighted!, makes me consider dark descent build.
however for some reasons the ember sentry won't summon.
methodical is my fav passive, favors both damage and spamming ability.
i also notice that most of the skill looks promising on higher tiers, but not really have enough use early.
im playing elite so i ended up boosting focus to wear stronger a stronger staff which makes more damage than any of my skills have. atleast for this level.
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Hi mohammed!
im at lvl 15, emberstrike looks powerful when blighted!, makes me consider dark descent build.
Hehe! That's why we made blighted versions of some of his skills, to tempt you to the dark side!!!
however for some reasons the ember sentry won't summon.
Okay I notice from your previous post that you are playing with Synergies installed as well. First of all pls know that we designed TL1CP to be played on its own and we do not guarantee there won't be conflicts with other mods (in fact it is most likely there will be conflicts if you have other mods installed).
But having said that, I will see what I can do ;) it might just be a simple GUID change...
What style-of-play would you say you are using at the moment? More of melee-caster? Or do you use ranged skills more? Do you use minions much?
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First time posting on forums but have posted before on Steam. Just wanna say kudos in regards to your ongoing support for your tl1cp mod. TL1CP comes across to me as a great expansion to vanilla TL2 or what would be considered nowadays as DLC.
I am including your mod as part of a personal mod merge proj. For future updates, will there be a specific change log that states which files were updated?
Ty!!
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im playing staff type, i would do like emberbolt, iceshock, then when i got charge i would do ember strike, phase and fire gauntlet. atleast thats what i came up with.
the other skill i can't find a combo for, might be nice if you can complement skills by one another. like the ember lightning and lance, i like them but i can't connect it to a good combo.
anyways merry christmas! Phanjam
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For future updates, will there be a specific change log that states which files were updated?
Hi Beast! Yes, we make it a point to maintain a change-log thing - it should be in each post which announces a new update version and, if you're getting it from Steam, also in the change-log part of the mod's workshop page.
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hi guys im back playing this again..very nice improvements v178. here are my observations.
- ember bolts
- skill shows 4bolts in the skills panel at tier 1 even if it shoot only 3 bolts.
- incredibly short ranged skill. and weak damage. i take that this is is for a Blighted Alchemist(i haven't choose yet).
- only poison damage he got. migth not be that bad.
- fire gaunlet
- not that weak of a skill, thank goodness it scales in tier.
- for a skill that takes away your movement and attack capability im expecting more from it.(like the vanquisher fire trap, has faster hit.)
- ember lance
- bro i sincerely think this skill should be electric damage.
- same second comment on fire gauntlet.
- this one scales poorly. i love the effects but its weak itself.
- vengeful shock
- man this is a useless skill.
- frost edge
- this is perfect just what a melee caster needed.
- ember shield
- at tier 1 you call keep pressing it to get multiple random elemental shield. which disappear once you lvl it again. it will only maintain a single random shield.
- nice skill overall, doesn't need to guard it since there is no time expiration(keeps you focus on other things)
i would really like to see alchemist, as more of an alchemist than a mage. like having a Transmution skill, or a Chemical Reaction skill, or a set of skill that when executed in order creates more. i feel that this alchemist is more mage than a man of science. and since im here giving ideas why not be the first class to consume embers!! to enhance himself or his skills. that would be cool.
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Hi @mohammed . Very sorry for the delayed reply - I saved a reply as a draft but then forgot all about it until now :(
Welcome back to the game!
Thanks for the feedback. I hear what youre saying about the Alch being more of a mage, but the aim of the mod was to port the TL1 classes into TL2 with a few updates where needed.
So im afraid we arent going to "re-theme" the Alch from where it is atm. We also wont re-balance any class skills. Their balance are where they are as a result of a lot of thought and testing and we're happy the result is quite faithful to the original TL1 classes.
But about your "consume embers" idea - that's a really good one! There was actaully a member who had that idea already. Unfortunately they did not stay active on this forum. But who knows, some modder/s may eventually come along who can realize that concept ;)
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About "consume embers" I have an idea:
Combine it with Phanjam new skill layout, when consume ember you will have 1 point for each types of elemental "route", each high tier ember for higher ember damage skill.
It's all about the unlock skill point rule.
For example:
4 fire ember base skill dam for 4 tier ember. Passive
For active skill, you raise it skill point like normal. And the damage or effect bonus is from all the Passive.
But with mohammed thought I think he wants to use ember to use skill (LOL I think ít's hard engine)
More harder is combining ember to create combo like Magicka.
More interesting, harder and harder ???